Now it gets sticky

[cjsmith]

State Farm offered me $1725 for the vehicle...

(this seems low to me, but wait, here comes the fun bit)

... if I can come up with a title. I've never had a title to this car. When I bought it I had a loan. By the time my loan was paid off, my bank had been purchased something like four times, I had moved at least twice, and I guess whatever's supposed to happen just didn't happen.

The DMV will accept a notarized letter on the lienholder's letterhead, which letterhead of course no longer exists. I MAY be able to get whichever bank purchased everybody else to write such a letter with a note saying they're the ones who ate my old bank. Maybe. If I can find the old loan information anyway. The newest of it should be thirteen years old.

(Pssst. This is why I don't like throwing away any financial papers.)

This is going to be an adventure.

Comments

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

Ouch! That's the kind of situation I'm going to get myself into with my total lack of filing system these days. I gotta get back to that.

If nothing else, take heart that someone else is learning from your experience! But most of all I hope you find the loan info and/or the bank has it. =crosses fingers, toes and eyes=

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I know the feeling. I probably have the loan info because I really do never throw anything away. But the "loan paid off" letter? The actual title itself? Those, probably not.

At least if I have the loan info there's a good chance I can get the bank to write up that notarized letter.

[wooddragon.livejournal.com]

Well, god forbid anything should be easy.

Titles are important. I've had to get replacement titles a number of times. I would think the loan pay-off info would be sufficient (provided one could find it), but what do I know about being a bureaucracy?

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

DMV will accept a title signed by the previous title holder, a notarized "lien release" form (presumably a CA form, I'd have a MASS form even if I still have it), an application for duplicate title signed by the title holder, or this notarized letter.

If I can find the loan pay-off info I can probably get a notarized letter. With, of course, some work.

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

My MIL has the title in her safe deposit box. Otherwise I'd probably misplace it to! Do you know what bank you had the loan from - a google search might turn up the new owner and you could go from there.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Google isn't being amazingly helpful, but I'm sure I could keep on it. *sigh*

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

I had a loan on my old '84 Volvo---paid off in 1988. God only knows where the title is. And I never bothered to file with the DMV to have it reissued in my name. Car sits, dead, in the driveway, just so that I can get a multi-car discount on my insurance.

State Farm should be able to accept a 262 (transfer of title) with lost title. If they give you any crap, let me know, and I'll see what I can do to assist. We may have to pay the DMV gal to take care of it, but that shouldn't cost more than $100 or so.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

They'll still need something from the lienholder, though, won't they? That's who's on the registration. DMV has no record of ownership at all (car came in from out of state).

*deep breath* I can do this, I can do this...

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

Oh--if car came in from out of state it gets stickier. There may never have been a California title issued at all. Your registration history should be sufficient for State Farm. Fight 'em!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Right, I don't think CA title was ever issued.

If there were a world competition in fighting, I would come in last. I may simply give up and take the salvage title -- it's easier.

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

A salvage title still won't be a title in your name--you'd be in the same boat. And with the B pillar damaged, that car is no longer safe.
Do you want me to talk to State Farm for you?

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not going to drive it after I find another. ...um, would you talking to State Farm be helpful? That would be awesome, truly, but what can we say? I totally respect that they can't buy a car from someone who "doesn't own it", and that seems like the sticking point... right?

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

I called my contact at State Farm--she thinks that getting the old registration info from the DMV will help. You'll likely have to file a 'lost title' with a verification--it will cost a few bucks to handle--probably around $100.00 or so. You can have the car verified by a cop or a licensed verifier. After that, you'd have to get a duplicate title issued--it will not happen overnight. My DMV gal will be in tomorrow--I can ask her about it then.

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

I just called my DMV gal--she may be able to assist with getting an out of state title issued in your name--then you'd have something that you could turn over to State Farm. She's actually out of town, but she said she'd call me with the info when she returns.
Hope this helps.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

You are AWESOME. *mwah*. This souds like it might be a good first step. I'd start with a MA title, I presume.

By the way, I will go silent pretty soon (Thurs afternoon) -- my office is moving across the hall and network will be down for a chunk of time.

[ckd]

From looking at the CA DMV stuff, it sounds like the registration info should have some kind of lienholder/owner listed. That would at least give you the bank that was eaten by the bank that ate the bank that swallowed the spider that wriggled inside her....

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yep, that one I know and even have memorized from looking at my registration for so many years. :-) From there it's a trail of clues to follow.

[jupiter29.livejournal.com]

Ouch, that doesn't sound fun. When I paid off my car loan, they sent me the title. It had no information with it whatsoever and I'd never bought a car before, so I just remember having no idea what I was supposed to do with it. Was I supposed to file it somewhere or send it to the state or something? No clue. So I did what I always do, I stuck it somewhere until I could deal with it later. And, not surprisingly, it's still there.

And, in fairness, I still know exactly where it is. But that will likely not be the case in five years when I need to find it. :(

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I don't think my people ever sent me the title, and that's probably their goofup, but that's the way this world works: if someone else goofs up I get screwed. :)

[jupiter29.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if that hadn't sent it to me, I never would have thought to ask for it. I hope you're able to get things to work out. Sometimes a little effort pays off. I doubt the insurance people are inherently bad, but I'm sure they're used to doing things in the easiest way possible. So it may take a little (gentle) elbowing to get them to see things from another perspective. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Right, I figure they just want clear title to the thing, and I can't blame them a bit for that. So I just have to tidy up my end.

[wildseakitten.livejournal.com]

its possible the bank may still have it sititng in the file archives. it possibly got returned to them after they tried to mail it to youw hen it was paid off. (had this happen to a friend) even this bank was gobbled 4 times. I'd contact whatever the current bank is, and explain the situation. :)

[shoutingboy.livejournal.com]

'This is why I don't like throwing away any financial papers.'

I know the feeling! Which exacerbates my clutterbug tendencies.

I've found having a good, fast scanner helps a lot. If I'm in any doubt about a piece of paper, I scan it--hard disk space is so cheap that I can keep the scans forever. It's come in handy more than once. (If I get turned down for a rebate, it's very handy to be able to say "here's my scan of the receipt, here's my scan of the rebate form, I qualify"--that always makes them change their minds.)

Anyway, I'm sure this will work out! Though I expect you're in for some more frustration along the way...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I have been considering the whole 'paperless' thing for some time now. It sure seems like it might be handy and efficient. I worry about backups and such -- maybe I am a Luddite at heart -- but I expect I'll do this step eventually.

[shoutingboy.livejournal.com]

Backups are important (though cheap CD-Rs and DVD-Rs make that easier).

But you don't have to go more paperless than you already are. You might decide that, say, you'll keep all the same paper copies you already do, but you'll also scan the ones you might need (that's what I do with charity receipts); and the papers you decide you won't keep, but might perhaps need later, you can scan. (I do that with bank statements--though now my bank lets me download PDFs of the statements, which makes it a lot easier.)

[billeyler.livejournal.com]

I'll be curious how this all pans out for you. Yuck.

I paid off my car about 3 months ago. I waited about a month and hadn't gotten the title in the mail, so I called the credit union. Turns out they don't automatically arrange for the title to be transferred to the owner, but they were happy to do it because I asked!

I now have the title in the firesafe downstairs!

Good luck!

[genderfur.livejournal.com]

Don't take their first offer. They are low-balling you and they'll be tickled if you don't ask for more.

I totalled a middle-aged Mazda 4-door years ago and it really wasn't worth much because it was designed to be traded in but it had been given to me instead. But what they offered me wouldn't even get me another one of what I'd had, even if I had wanted it.

Instead, I shopped for what I wanted (a used Toyota station wagen) and just kept telling them that I needed enough money for a *usable car*, a car I could *drive*, etc. After awhile, I guess I wore them down, because after being reasonable with me for several phone calls (while I was stubborn with them), they finally showed their belly and gave me what I was asking for.

They expect you to haggle with them and count on you not doing it. Don't take their first offer.

[oddhack.livejournal.com]

I second all that. Their goal is to get you to go away quickly at minimum cost. A bit of pushback can result in a much higher settlement. You have, IIRC, a year from the accident date to settle so there's no rush unless you absolutely need the money now for a replacement vehicle.

One thing you can do is look in local used car sales listings for comparable vehicles - that may well be higher than the blue book value they came up with, and is good evidence they should pay you more. Also, make sure you report any recent major maintenance or add-ons that would increase the value.

And don't be eager to settle the medical side of the claim (which can be done separately). Make sure you are getting evaluated for injury and any complaints arising from it - even minor collisions can create long-term problems - and are completely post-injury, and keep track of all treatment for it. That will end up getting multiplied by some pain-and-suffering value (I think it was about 3x in my case) in their final offer.

[oddhack.livejournal.com]

Oh, and speaking of "paperless" - make sure *everything* you discuss with the opposing insurer is documented. What they tell you on the phone is meaningless. Get it in writing. In my case, I ended up with an 800 line log documenting every interaction with Allstate, as well as a thick sheaf of letters - and you can bet I made use of it, because they cycled me through two offices and 5 adjusters before the claim was finally settled.

[jcgbigler.livejournal.com]

larksdream just bought a car and paid Carfax for a title check. She paid the extra $5 (i.e., $25 instead of $20) for "unlimited title searches over a 30-day period" instead of just one title search. She offered them up to her friends in this post (http://larksdream.livejournal.com/421457.html). In case you take her up on it, I'll give her a heads-up that you might be asking her to run one for you.

[jcgbigler.livejournal.com]

Whoops. The post is friends-locked. I'll ask her to comment here if she's willing to extend the offer.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much! I bet that will be very helpful. Thanks for connecting the two of us!

[larksdream]

Hi! jcbigler sent me over. If you have the VIN of the car, I can run a check on it. They will list every title that was ever issued on this car, including what state issued it and what the title # was. Don't know if that would be helpful but hey, it's free! You can post the VIN as a reply here or email it to me at my LJ email, and I can mail you back a PDF of the history.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ooooooooooooooo, thank you very much! OK, running to get the VIN now...

1NXAE92E3KZ033021

I bet that will help immensely!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh, and duh: an e-mail address. My LiveJournal address would be great.