Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 02:33 pm
Every time I think I'm really done with the whole psychological adjustment to the gimp thing, I uncover a new pus-filled boil I hadn't previously seen.

Today it's "But I can't possibly be physically attractive if I'm gimpy."

Never mind that there exist people who are gimpy whom I find physically attractive. Never mind that there exist people who claim to find me physically attractive. The only thing my seamy grimy mind can come up with is that if I was attractive before, and things are different and worse now, then I must be unable to be attractive ever again. Therefore anyone who claims to be attracted to me is lying. (Especially if such a person has always been attracted to able-bodied, athletic folk.) And let's just throw in some cultural standards here, shall we? Say, let's flip through a men's magazine or watch the latest Dove commercial [WARNING: potentially disturbing imagery]? That definitely adds some flavor to this stew.

[Edited to add: I'm not fishing for compliments. Truly. I already know there exist people who claim to find me physically attractive. This particular pusboil is not necessarily logical!]

Like everything else involved in the foot thing, I'll get past this one too. There are a lot of complex components to it. I'll fix what's fixable, learn to disbelieve what doesn't make sense, and accept the parts of it that are real. But dangit. I'm tired. Can I be done with this crap? Soon?? Can this be the last one, please?
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:40 pm (UTC)
I know that rationally, you know this is crap, because you've seen how things have gone since I got gimpy. (I met Joe after my RA was diagnosed, for what it's worth. He has helped me fasten my pants after using the toilet, when I couldn't bend my fingers -- then jumped me an hour later.) There are now at least three people who find me attractive despite gimpiness. I do not understand it, it's not just the gimpiness, it's the weird body shape and textures, and the wrinkles, and the teeth that are growing crooked, and . . . really, it doesn't matter. People want you for your brain and your heart. But you know that already.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:46 pm (UTC)
I know that rationally, you know this is crap, because you've seen how things have gone since I got gimpy.

Exactly. But man, I need some kind of clue-by-four so I can hit the rest of my brain and emotions and psyche with this.

it's not just the gimpiness, it's the weird body shape and textures, and the wrinkles, and the teeth that are growing crooked, and . . .

Yes. I'll probably never be physically fit again, I've chopped off the hair because of this stuff, my legs and feet are so atrophied that massage therapists thank me (I wish I were making this up)... yeah, all of that. The round-number birthday isn't helping either, I'm sure.

People want you for your brain and your heart. But you know that already.

I think when I come out the other side of this particular emotional tangle, that will be the blessing. I will know that people who want me want me for my brain and my heart. Earlier in my life that was patently ludicrous.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC)
I will know that people who want me want me for my brain and my heart. Earlier in my life that was patently ludicrous.

Yeah, but the people who don't want you for your brain and your heart aren't your type. People tell high schoolers that, and they don't get it -- but it becomes ever so true with age. You would hate being involved with the people who want you for a whole, traditionally gorgeous self. (You are gorgeous, but neither you nor I fits some sort of mold.)

Also: There are people out there, and I know this because I have had people tell me so, who find you attractive, and they're really worthwhile people. That doesn't mean they're right for you, far from everyone will be. But I know, for sure, that really nifty, worthwhile people think you're hot.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:53 pm (UTC)
Yeah, but the people who don't want you for your brain and your heart aren't your type.

That's for sure -- especially for the long run. And I know there are people who say they find me attractive. Where's that clue-by-four? I'm tired of having to thwap my brain for stuff like this.

Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:56 pm (UTC)
The things around your brain and heart are nice too. ;)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:17 pm (UTC)
I have a really good skull. ;-) (thank you.)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:28 pm (UTC)
And cute ribs. ;)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:06 pm (UTC)
Where's that clue-by-four?


C'mon over and I'll show ya. ;p

Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:17 pm (UTC)
Oh dear. I could be in trouble.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:07 pm (UTC)
I will know that people who want me want me for my brain and my heart.

and general esculence :)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:20 pm (UTC)
That's somewhere south of the brain, isn't it? ;)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:21 pm (UTC)
well, you do have a very nice south-of-the-brain indeed :)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:45 pm (UTC)
On campus today, I passed a 20-something student, smiling, blond, handsome, articulate (he was talking to a friend), gesticulating with the conversation.

He was missing his right arm just below the elbow.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC)
Awesome. I can do smiling and blond too, and sometimes articulate, and that's not bad. :-) Just gotta remember that, y'know?
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:03 pm (UTC)
I'm sure you've got the gesticulating down to a fine art, too!

And you're a very attractive woman!
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:15 pm (UTC)
Aw, thank you! I'll have to practice gesticulating. ;-)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC)
That is a very strange commercial. One wonders how it helps them to sell soap.
I like the slogan, though.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC)
I wonder too. Still, it's getting around; it's a powerful clip for only a minute and change of show time!
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC)
People want you for your brain and your heart.

And your amazing cuteness, quite possibly ;).
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:53 pm (UTC)
Aww, thanks! ;-)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC)
Ummm, men's magazines? Why? I don't find visible rib cages attractive. I read Playboy, of course, because it's a classic. It has to be a good month when one of the pictorials appeals to me, but it's not so rare that I stop getting the magazine. I could be fatuous and talk about the articles, some of which I do read, but I'm not about to lie and claim that's why I read it.

I've struggled for a long time to figure out what my "type" is. I eventually realized I'm attracted by Big Br...ains. Everything else is details. I expect that the sort of people you associate with have similar predilections. Just guessing.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 09:52 pm (UTC)
[livejournal.com profile] deyo and [livejournal.com profile] joedecker tend to find the same women attractive, or at least have a large overlap (except for that [livejournal.com profile] deyo isn't into the boys so much), but the women they find attractive aren't similar to one another, at least to me. I tried to figure out what they both find hot -- which includes me, and I don't think of myself as anything like traditionally hot -- and the list is basically, "pleasant company," "relatively smart," and "relatively low drama." And by "drama" they don't mean medical drama, but the kind that is like dropping a pissed-off pig into a room full of people having a pleasant conversation.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:07 pm (UTC)
Ummm, men's magazines? Why?

Just for those cultural standards I was mentioning. The stereotypical standard for female attractiveness to men is exemplified by something like Playboy. I'm going to guess most people who pony up the money for a subscription do like the pictures more often than not. I once looked a little like that, but I will never look like that again.

I'm attracted by Big Br...ains.

HAHAHA love it!
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:02 pm (UTC)
The only thing my seamy grimy mind can come up with is that if I was attractive before, and things are different and worse now, then I must be unable to be attractive ever again.

And then there are those like me who have never been physically attractive and now have the added burden of dealing with a further slide into that morass. For the most part I can deal with it, but there will always be a small part of me that would like to have had the experience of being thought of as physically attractive.

As I have never met you in person and can only go by the small icon picture on this blog and by what you write here, I think of you as a very fun, bright, interesting and attractive person simply because you transmit, even when not feeling well, a delight of life that is often missing in those who only have physical attractiveness. I hope to someday meet you in person as the entity I see through the words placed here sounds like someone I would enjoy in person.

Okay, done rambling.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:14 pm (UTC)
For the most part I can deal with it, but there will always be a small part of me that would like to have had the experience of being thought of as physically attractive.

Yeah. That sucks. I can even sympathize a tiny bit: I have never in my life been called "beautiful" or even so much as "striking", and almost never "pretty", because at five foot three the best I can hope for is "cute". I have a touch of that wistfulness. Anyway, the morass is definitely no fun. And it ain't gonna get any better.

Thank you for the complimentary impressions! I would enjoy meeting you, too. See, I *do* like life (most of the time) and I do like people (most of the time), and yeah, that's the kind of thing that's going to have to carry us along, isn't it? Since we don't have super-long legs and flawless skin and a body-mass index of 2.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:21 pm (UTC)
I think of you as a very fun, bright, interesting and attractive person simply because you transmit, even when not feeling well, a delight of life that is often missing in those who only have physical attractiveness.

I know CJ and you are soooooo right in your assessment! - fun, bright, interesting, attractive and full of life.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:24 pm (UTC)
Aw, thank you!

And maybe some day I will be DONE with this whole psychological overhaul. Sheesh. Then I'll have more energy to do fun stuff!
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:38 pm (UTC)
I have never consider myself beautiful but I do think I am, at least fairly cute. But I now have a dent, literally in the side of my head from where my bone plate has sunk and shifted because someone need to made a hole in my skull that was about the dimensions of a grapefruit. My hair does a good job of covering it up but if the wind is blowing or I pull my hair back so that it is out of my face, the dent is very obvious. It literally looks like the side of my head is caved in. I find it hard to imagine that I am truly attractive with said dent in the side of my head, and I am still very self conscious about it. It does not matter that unless you really know where to look, it is probably not something you would notice. And on really bad days, I throw in the stretch marks and the extra 35 pounds then the fun really begins. All I am saying is that I can truly relate. And there are times where we are our own worst critic and we dole out more than enough criticism to ourselves in our internal monologue. My thought for you is that I hope you are able to silence that monologue soon, but I know it is easier said than done :-)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:45 pm (UTC)
All I am saying is that I can truly relate.

Absolutely. And I know this is just Yet Another Homework Assignment. I know I'll get through it, I'll figure it out, I'll do what needs doing. I'll come out the other side a stronger and happier person. But dang it, I want a VACATION from all this darned growth stuff, y'know?

*sigh*

Yeah. You definitely understand. *sigh*
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:40 pm (UTC)
*hughug*
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:47 pm (UTC)
Thanks. I'm tired of these opportunities for growth!
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 11:09 pm (UTC)
(Just to prove I'm not a complete dolt, I deliberately did not leer at you to demonstrate that your gimpiness is not relevant to your attractiveness... ;)
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 11:12 pm (UTC)
*grin* Yeah, compliments are wonderful and fun, but I still gotta do my homework!
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:44 pm (UTC)
I know it's hard for outside comments to change what your brain is telling yourself, but I'll cast another vote in the column of "Oh, puh-leeeeze!" ;-)

*hugs*
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 10:56 pm (UTC)
Right - what I need is something that...

hmm...

OK. Yeah, the brain and the heart, right. But to get external validation that my hot monkey body is desirable, I'd need someone I know wants me only for my hot monkey body. A shallow brainless misogynistic type would fit this role best. Fortunately for my sanity and for my lack of criminal record, I don't hang out with these very often. And I think I can live with that.
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 11:06 pm (UTC)
FWIW, I have never considered myself physically attractive, which is why I've always had trouble graciously accepting what positive attention I've gotten in that regard. I think you may be on to something, and yeah, I could live with not hanging out with that type of person either. :-)
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[personal profile] ckd
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 04:18 am (UTC)
Perhaps what you need, then, is someone who can convincingly portray someone who only wants to go for the Full Bonobo with you, even if they're also secretly in love with your various innards.
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 05:15 pm (UTC)
Twisted, isn't it? Man, these not-at-all-rational things can be tough nuts to crack. I was talking to Rob about some of this last night and I couldn't even put words around some of it, it was so wonky!
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 06:54 am (UTC)
I am sorry you are going through this. It's a tough one.

It also rings very familiar to me as I have felt this way since having S., and it is not for the reasons people automatically think. It is not about "babyweight" as I didn't really have any and am, in fact, much smaller than I was before I got pregnant. (And gaining weight really wouldn't have been such an issue with me, nor make me feel less attractive). It is that my body is different now. My ass shrank and is smaller in proportion to the rest of me than it ever has been. I have to buy "boy cut" jeans now, which in my prior life would have been laughable. My body feels very unfamiliar to me and that is unnerving. I am self-conscious and the c-section scar, not to mention that that I am still fiercely protective of the skin around the surgery site as it is still hypersenstive (nothing like a year ago, but not normal). My breasts are shaped differently and I have no desire to use them sexually as I have had a tiny human drinking from them, pulling them, scratching them, biting them and being otherwise attached to them for many hours of each day for over a year. The skin on my face is more sensitive. A bunch of my hair fell out post-partum and now it has grown back in a million wispy chunks, which doesn't compliment the remaining hair's length all that well. Oh, and S. is terrified of the sound of the hair dryer so it is rare that I get a chance to make my hair look really nice. I hardly have any clothes that fit me and that doesn't help (I put on my raincoat the other day and it was laughably large--there is too big, and there is really too big to wear. Too many of my clothes fall into the latter category. I have no interest in looking like I am trying to emulate the fifteen year old boys in our neighborhood who have to hold their pants up by the crotch or else they will trip on the excess fabric.) And, mostly, I feel like the fact that I am now "mom" disqualifies me from being attractive to anyone. Not saying that it is rational and [livejournal.com profile] ptor has given me no reason to feel this way (he is as into me as ever), but it is still there.

But I digress...

Just saying in a long, roundabout way that I get it.
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 05:09 pm (UTC)
*nodnod* I hear ya. "Different" (and in some ways easy to imagine as "worse") is not at all easy to deal with. I'm glad [livejournal.com profile] ptor is showing no change in his attraction to you; that would really crank the intensity up!

And yeah, the fact it's not rational doesn't help, does it? Nobody can talk you out of something your rational mind already knows is bunk.

*hug*.
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 12:29 pm (UTC)
At least you recognize it for what it is. It might help to keep repeating the "learn to disbelieve what doesn't make sense" bit when you start feeling down.

And I know you weren't fishing for compliments, but you are HAWT...so cut that shit out. :):):)
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 05:16 pm (UTC)
Recognizing it for what it is is a huge step. I have Rob to talk to, who understands really very well, and I have a therapist, and I have a brain that's really rather handy for solving problems, so... really I'm well equipped.

But it's still like cleaning the house: I'd much rather it were already done than something I'm just about to start on. :)

And thanks!! :)
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 09:26 pm (UTC)
Just recognizing that the problem is a problem of your own thinking patterns rather than of your actual physical being is not the automatic solution - it should be, though, doesn't it feel like? Dammit! but it really helps! So, looked at properly, you're halfway there!
Thursday, October 11th, 2007 10:38 pm (UTC)
It definitely helps; I can't imagine getting through this without that crucial step. But I sure do wish, sometimes, that I had a couple of magical switches in my brain -- the "MAKING SENSE: YES" one and the "GETTING THE HECK OVER YOURSELF: YES" one -- so I could simply flip them and be done with it!
Wednesday, October 17th, 2007 05:17 pm (UTC)
I don't know that I have any real idea what you look like, aside from that one icon. But I find you intellectually attractive. :)

Beyond that, though, I do understand what you are talking about. I think people tend to find themselves less attractive than others, as a rule. But even more insidious than that, I think we tend to find things about ourselves that we wish were different (especially if we feel somehow we could have changed them) and generate this feeling that this must be somehow unattractive to others. People may color their hair because they think they look more exciting a redhead, but few people would actually state that blonde hair makes them unattractive. But people easily feel that way about their weight or their braces or other things of that sort.

It goes without saying that some people still find me attractive, despite my weight. And it goes without saying that some people would find me unattractive no matter how thing I was. But inside somewhere I am unhappy enough with myself over the matter that it influences how I perceive people perceiving me.
Thursday, October 18th, 2007 12:17 am (UTC)
I think we tend to find things about ourselves that we wish were different (especially if we feel somehow we could have changed them) and generate this feeling that this must be somehow unattractive to others. [...] Inside somewhere I am unhappy enough with myself over the matter that it influences how I perceive people perceiving me.

Absolutely. Very good points.

Of anyone on the planet, I'm probably the one most unhappy about my foot health. Naturally it looks like a Big Awful Thing to me. It's all too easy for me to inflate it into a Big Awful Thing when I think about how others see me. Similarly, I'm the most unhappy about the side effects such as lack of physical fitness, and I imagine that as a terrible thing when I think about how others see me.
Thursday, October 18th, 2007 08:50 pm (UTC)
I think everybody would be much healthier (and the overwhelming majority much happier) if they could see themselves as somebody else sees them just for a few minutes. :)
Thursday, October 18th, 2007 09:37 pm (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree. And the other few percent would bathe, so it's a win all around! ;-)
Friday, October 19th, 2007 03:44 am (UTC)
Haha. Indeed.