What am I looking for?

[cjsmith]

What am I looking for in a friend or a group of friends / social circle?

I need to be visible. I do not ever again want to leave a group of friends and find out that they do not remember until I mention it that it's the last time I'm going to dance with them. I don't know what I do to be so invisible, but that's just pathetic. I will figure out my side of this dynamic and *fix it*. (This transition is going to be good for me in a lot of ways. Too bad I had to lose the feet to start looking at all this.)

I'd like someone to hang out with. People with whom I can be myself, and people who feel comfortable being themselves around me.

I'd like fun times. Laughter. Things to do, things to learn, things to talk about.

I'd like the opportunity to do nice things for others. I remember when I was having a crampy-doom day and wooddragon got me a chocolate muffin-cake-thing. She rocks. I remember crazyladynocats' cookies and rampling's cheese and indyansel's chocolate. Those were wonderful. Because I love it so much when people do stuff like that for me, I also want to be able to do things like that for them, too. (And no, it doesn't always have to be food. I sure do remember all the food, though, don't I? Heh!)

Ideally, for close friendships, I'd like someone who will call me -- gently -- on my shit, and who will challenge me to improve.

I might need to learn how to do my part to keep up friendships. I already know I don't reach out much. I will work on that. It may very well be that I don't pay attention in person. If so, I will fix it. That sort of thing.

What draws me to befriend someone online?

Intelligence, amusing or interesting things to say, humor, friendliness, at least something in common with me, supportiveness / caring, some level of self-awareness / taking responsibility for self, lack of need to put me down or order me around, ability to befriend me back even if we don't agree on everything.

Hi, everyone on my friendslist. Every one of you has some or all of this, at least in my eyes. :-)

What draws me to befriend someone in person?

Many of the same things, although they'll show up differently. We see each other on LJ through the written word, so people who are good at wordsmithing appear more intelligent. In person, spelling and grammar don't matter as much. Some people use LJ to vent and whine (I know I do) and thus may seem to be victims by temperament when they're less like that in person. Some people are very caring and supportive in LJ's many-separate-conversations environment, while others may not seem so because they're not necessarily sure what to type; but in person I perceive folks as supportive based on facial expresson and body language and whether they're willing to give me half the air time in a conversation.

Do I know anyone like this?

Hell yeah. Lots of 'em, and quite a few live within ten minutes of me. It's time for me to reach out to coworkers, regain contact with ex-coworkers, wave and smile at my neighbors, attend that block party. Time to show up at flying club activities; time to show up at W&S occasionally to get more face time with my LJ-friends farther away. Time to decide what my new big hobby will be (that'll take a while). And if I feel myself slipping into invisibility, maybe I'll urge all these people to get LJ accounts! :-)

Comments

[airporter.livejournal.com]

willing to give me half the air time in a conversation

I'm getting better at this, so how about it? Granted, I still have to have the last word. You'd noticed? *grin*

I admit to being a bit shy in the face of someone new, who seemed to be so all together. I do wish I'd gotten it together to say hi! in July; knowing you on LJ is cool, but I do want to deliver these hugs.

Your hug pile's gotten kind of, um, large.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I sometimes need to be reined in in a conversation, too! :-)

I'm *definitely* shy with new folk. Eh well! We may see each other again if I hang around square dancers as a "sd widow" or if I call for more IAGSDC stuff!

No worries: the Hug Bank of CJ can cover any loans. I believe there are several here waiting to head back to you, as well. :-)

[airporter.livejournal.com]

Aw, thanks. I'll look forward to it. And bring your smiles - the one we can hear in your 'voice' and the ones we can see. They're all lovely.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

*blush*

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

I think I share the traits you listed for what draws you to befriend, in both circumstances. Some of them are probably pretty global, actually.

While I wish I wasn't so invisible at times, I do value some invisibility time, and I don't necessarily want a larger group of friends, just ones that aren't so transient, which it seems my local friends continue to be. I can wish all day that my closer online friends were physically closer, so I just need to accept that to maintain those is going to take occassional visits, hopefully from both directions.

Where the heck was I going with this? :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, those lists were pretty generic. I didn't order them -- maybe my ordering would be less generic. (I care about intelligence and self-direction a bit more than most folk might, and I don't give two hoots about fashion or shared movie references.)

I can wish all day that my closer online friends were physically closer

Exactly -- I think I finally woke up and said okay, if my online friends aren't physically close I can branch out and befriend people in my own damn town. What a concept! :-)

Where the heck was I going with this? :-)

To visit me? ;-)

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

*grin* Depends on how I did on the phone w/ MSTV earlier today, I suppose, as current $$ limits our travel to places we can reach in a day or so by car. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I hear ya. Saw your post about "not sure how it went, will get info later" -- I hope they do bring you out here!

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Me, too! :-) The hiring manager sounded impressed, anyway, although he seemed of few words (I think he was jotting stuff down, too, though). I just hope I didn't commit seppuku by mentioning I'd also previously worked with products from that little upstart competitor headquartered near where you live and named after a fruit. ;-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I doubt it... or at least, I hope it wouldn't be a problem. Those fruits ger around; if you hire only people who haven't been near 'em, you've got a sharply diminished hiring pool.

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

True, true. And he did ask what I thought of the idea of working for his company later, so I should be in the clear, at least as far as that goes.

[mountainkitten.livejournal.com]

just so you know, you were totally visible to me when I met you at the choirloft when I was in the bay area visiting. :) Not simply because so many were happy to meet you finally, but that I found you easy to chat to about what was going on in my life... even though we just met.

I'm depending more and more on LJ for friendships because I've found I'm moving on from some of the other things that were once important to me. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :-) "Easy to chat to" is a wonderful compliment.

LJ will play a large role in my social life for a long time to come, I expect. It works very well that way.

[mountainkitten.livejournal.com]

Online mediums have played a huge role in my social life for years. Its great in one aspect because we move and all my friends go with me for the most part. Of course having met so many of my really good friends online, and even my husband... seems natural to me I guess. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

You met your husband online? Nifty! Maybe some day you'll make a post of that story.

[mountainkitten.livejournal.com]

I touched on it in my cast of characters I posted last night... but I really should make a more in depth posting of the history of us. :) Its coming up on 13 years ago that we met. Back when we did it, not as many people were doing meeting online and marrying. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ooo, I just saw the bit about filtering and such. I have a little catching up to do!

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

I do remember when we met face-to-face the first time - after a few minutes of two obviously-shy people being shy, I remember relaxing and being comfortable hanging out with you. It happened a lot faster than it usually does when I meet someone the first time, just because I felt I already knew you, because of LJ.

I need to learn to reach out, too. Part of my problem is finding local people I want to hang out with :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

a few minutes of two obviously-shy people being shy

Oh yeah! I remember that part :-)

I felt I already knew you, because of LJ.

Right. The process of getting to know someone on LJ is so different from in person! I can browse a person's journal for a long time before taking any kind of risk ... heck, there isn't much risk to take. In person, if you invite someone to "do lunch" and in the first ten minutes you find they're deeply abrasive, you're stuck for at least the lunch and maybe a couple of rebuffed return invites.

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Then there was the 2nd time we were together (first time was when you and Toni picked me up at $FormerEmployer's MV office for lunch shortly after the two of you met) - when you were trying on corsets, as you put it, to break the ice. I have to admit it worked! ;-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

BWAHAA! I remember that! Soooooooooo true. It *did* work :-) and it was fun and humorous as well!

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Well I certainly enjoyed it! ;-)

[runeshower.livejournal.com]

Thought-provoking post. Now I want to write something similar. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ooo, please do! I'd enjoy hearing what other people want from a friendship or what draws them to befriend others.

[tytso.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I don't travel to the Bay Area as much; and when I do, I'm usually spending time with Stacey. So unfortunately I haven't been very good about keeping up with our in-person friendship. Which is a pity, because I've always enjoyed hanging out with you and chatting about what's been going on in our lives, or about current events, or about airplanes, or about whatever.

But I've always thought of you as someone who had a huge social circle and support network, and always sort of envied you for that; so it's interesting to here you say that you think of yourself as being socially invisible.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I have a huge social circle on line, a fairly small one in person. I enjoy getting together with you too -- but I certainly understand the priority on seeing Stacey! :-)

I need to be independently wealthy. Then I can take time off to visit lots of friends around the globe. Sounds good to me!

[wispfox.livejournal.com]

I have a huge social circle on line, a fairly small one in person.

Ditto. Although my in-person one is improving, slowly, as I find more people with whom I am sufficiently comfortable and for whom the interest in friendship is a mutual one. Also because I moved closer to the nearest big city.

[jcgbigler.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, a lot of the ways people make themselves visible and memorable in large groups work well for extroverts, but are both scary and effort-ful for introverts. You'd probably have a much easier time being visible & memorable one-on-one than in a big group.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's probably very true. So one step I'd take is setting up one-on-one time.

I wish I even knew *what it is people do* to make themselves visible and memorable. I mean, I could dye my hair purple, but most folk don't have to; what is it that they're doing that I don't perceive? If I could answer that, I might be able to pick and choose a few things that were comfortable for me to do.

[kennita.livejournal.com]

Are you really so invisible? I might not remember that it was the last time I would dance with you, but then I don't remember a lot of important things. I'm probably not qualified to talk about this, given that I'm an Extrovert in spades and physically distinctive, as well as having an unusual name, but: perhaps as a shy person (your description) at least part of you would sometimes like to be invisible, but I don't think that as an attractive person you could quite pull that off. I'd have to see more examples of "invisible" before I was sure it wasn't something that couldn't actually have been the other person thinking "I'd better not stare" or "She's taken" or "I wouldn't have a chance" or "What do I say?" or something like that. And I'm tripping over my proverbial tongue so I should go to bed now....

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Maybe I just THINK I'm very invisible, but it's selective noticing. (I notice strongly the times I'm invisible and then don't notice the times I feel like part of a group.) Hard to say.

I admit that I too don't remember a lot of important things, often things very important to others, so that's something I can think about when musing on friendship. If I'm not remembering what's going on in so-and-so's life, then are we close enough that I should expect him to remember mine? Having reasonable expectations is probably key.

[kennita.livejournal.com]

I'm real good at the selective noticing thing myself. "why don't you ever...?" "But I did; this time and that time and the other time ..." (sheepishly) "Oh."

For me, this isn't limited to people I'm not "close enough" to. I can even forget things important to my SO -- the saving grace is that he's usually there to remind me. YMMV.

IMHO, reasonable expectations are DEFINITELY key. It can often work best to have no expectations at all, if you can manage it. That way, anything negative that happens is interesting, and anything positive that happens is serendipity.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

(sheepishly) "Oh."

Yeah. That. :-)

It can often work best to have no expectations at all, if you can manage it.

Indeed, that would be best. I suspect I'm a little too human still... haven't reached that level of serenity about life... but that's where I'd like to be one day.

[kennita.livejournal.com]

that human thing. Sometimes I don't evennotice that I have expectations until they aren't met.

When I don't have them, it's often not about serenity; it's about having no clue what to expect and throwing up my hands. Possibilities-R-Us, and somewhere in "what might they do?", "why might they do it?", what might the consequences be?", "how might I/they/other people respond?", etc., the combinatorial explosion overwhelms me and I end up back at my basic world view: "I don't know what's going on -- even when I think I do.".

[dieppe.livejournal.com]

Wow... CJ... Uh, I couldn't have said better what's been brewing in my mind lately than what you've said here... can I copy that and paste it into my LJ? Just... can't say anything else I guess other than I totally understand this, but don't necessarily know the right solution for me.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* Feel free! :)

I don't know the right solution for me either but I'm sure I'll eventually work it out. In the same way Ami mentioned LJ can make us lazy, getting SOME face-to-face time through square dancing has made me lazy: I got just enough that I wasn't motivated to find the rest. :-)

[oddhack.livejournal.com]

If you're interested, you would be welcome to join our Saturday lunch & gaming group, which usually meets in Sunnyvale or Belmont and is open to new people. I'm not sure exactly where you live, but maybe that's close enough to be accessible?

Several Caltech contemporaries of joedecker started it, and additional geeks/spice/etc. have joined in over the years. There is a private pilot in the group, and several people who travel a great deal, so you would have some shared interests even if the gaming is not appealing.

Follow up if you want to know more. Hm, does LJ provide any ability to email people, or can we only contact each other via journal entries?

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ooo, thank you! I might enjoy joining the lunch part and meeting random local geeks. Geek = yay. :-)

LJ doesn't specifically provide a way to e-mail people, but username at livejournal works for... anyone with a paid account?... me, anyway.

[kennita.livejournal.com]

Hey -- I wanna go, too! I like lunch _and_ gaming, and I live in between Sunnyvale and Belmont. I got this 'cause CJ's on my Friends list, BTW. I don't have a paid account; I guess comments on one of my LJ posts will have to do for now. I get email when CJ comments on my posts, FWIW.

Hope to meet you soon!

[oddhack.livejournal.com]

Hi Kennita - I found what I think is your email address, on the website in your profile, and forwarded more details about our group. If you don't receive it soon, I guess you can post back to this thread.

Thanks for the heads-up, CJ. Don't think I would have noticed this otherwise.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I suspect Kennita's reply below was aimed at you, fyi. She wants to see this lunch and gaming group too. :-)