Shook up

[cjsmith]

A while back I mentally searched the list of women I knew, to see if I knew any who were happily married for a long time. My criteria were simple. The person had to be:

• Female
• Married
• In this relationship for TEN YEARS (I picked this because of statistics on divorce before and after the ten year mark - ten years is "pretty stable")
• Happy (not just biding her time until the kids are old enough for a divorce, not wondering what life would be like if, not trapped but grinning-and-bearing-it, not Working Through A Rough Time Right Now, but GLAD she's there)

I came up with one after a fair amount of thought. I have several other possibles. For most of these possibles I have to stretch one or more of the criteria - sometimes the length of time, and sometimes I don't know the lady in question well enough to say whether she's grinning and bearing it. But there was one DEFINITE.

So I thought of my own life, and I thought, okay, I'll try to stick it out. One out of hundreds of women I know -- hey, I can match those odds. I'm willing to work at it. She exists, so I know it's possible.

Last night I learned she's filing for divorce.

Y'know, I hate to sound like a cynic, but some days the cynical answer really does fit what I can see.

Comments

[mighty-sam.livejournal.com]

I learned yesterday that a friend of mine and his wife of approximately 10 years are soon to be splitting. Seems to be everywhere.

I'm not worried about Kimmy and me, though. We know how much work it is to make things last.

[dawnd.livejournal.com]

Akien and I have been married 12 years come this September (in relationship for about 15). We have worked through tough times before, but this is not one of them (with regard to OUR relationship, anyway!). I am VERY happy in my marriage to him--couldn't be better.

Hope that helps!

[cassidyrose.livejournal.com]

This is a rough one.

My sister (3.5 years my junior) has recently become very disheartened as I and our two cousins (both my age) have all been married and divorced. And worse, all our husbands were abusive. Also, a woman we grew up with (also my age) who was married a year before I was, is also now getting divorced. My sister is really discouraged.

At my high school reunion, there was one other woman from my social circle of sorts who had already been married and divorced as well (like me). We've only been out of high school for 10 years.

Yeah, it is depressing at times

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thank gawd. I am very glad to hear you say that.

Thing that really gets me about this gal is that she actively praised her husband. She'd send a note to her friends saying how her day was, and somewhere in there would be something he did that she really appreciated. This was a pattern that went on for years. I have never seen another woman do that! And now, after being out of touch for several months, this. One of them's had some kind of personality shift, I keep thinking.

I'm sad to see a good thing die. :-(

[bklyngirl.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure, but are you by any chance talking about a mutual friend? If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, it shook me up too! I guess you never know what really goes on with someone else's relationship.

I have the same fears as you - the odds really do seem overwhelmingly against having a long-term, stable, HAPPY, monogamous relationship. I just did the same mental inventory you did and I couldn't come up with a single person. The closest I came was my best friend who is in a long-term (8 year) monogamous lesbian relationship which, by all indications, seems to be happy and fulfilling to her. The only other happy relationships I know of are all shorter (5 years or less). Although most of those are people who had VERY bad first marriages and have just embarked on their second - so my hope is that they all learned something from the first & the second will be better for them (statistics don't seem to bear that out though).

I know in my own relationship - I love my husband, I am happy to be with him but it is so damn hard to maintain a happy, equitable, fulfilling relationship. It is WAY more work than I ever thought it would be. And some days I feel like we're really not going to make it. We have had an awful lot of things to deal with in the short time we've been married (2 years next month) so I'm hopeful that at some point the bad news/hardships will ease up & we'll have a better idea if it's always going to be such a struggle. We both have had so much to deal with, not including each other, that it's just inevitable (I think) that our marriage would have some strain on it.
I'm just babbling now, so I'll stop - I just wanted to let you know that I hear exactly what you're saying!

[joedecker.livejournal.com]

I nominate my Chris.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there aren't a lot of women who fit those criteria. I think Paula (pagawne) would tell you that she does, though there are times in the past she wouldn't have. I'm pretty sure saoba fits your criteria, though she's had some poly hell in the years I've known her. Still, she and her husband are very happily connected with each other, and have been together for something like 15 years now.

My most distant LDR partner has an almost perfect marriage, and they've been married for over 10 years, so that's another case for you. (Of course she, too, has had some poly hell... I note a trend here, where if a relationship survives poly hell it seems to be stronger and more resilient in the long term. Hmmm... I wonder how general that is?)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Think this sort of thing goes in waves? Like baby booms? I'm crossing my fingers for the people I know. Presuming, of course, that they're happy, which I guess I don't know.

I'm not worried about Kimmy and me, though. We know how much work it is to make things last.

Excellent. So few do, it seems sometimes. And it doesn't have to be arduous difficult work, if you just keep up with it. Maintenance is a lot easier than rebuilding...

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Absolutely.

I've known a few other couples over time, too -- my host parents in Australia (about 45 years), the parents of the kids I used to babysit (on about 23 years now), the sister of one of them (about 20 years), and so on.

I know a pair of women who have been together since '65, but they aren't allowed to get married. (One told the other, in front of me, "You only stay with me because I make good biscuits." The second replied, "You only stay with me because I suck on your hoohoo." The first one giggled and blushed.)

Casey and I might never get married -- might, might not -- but if we make it ten-plus years (any votes?) I'd consider myself one of those. We aren't legally married, but then, neither are my sister and her girlfriend. ;)

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

We have friends who have been married either 17 or 18 years (I forget). They've been friends with my DH for about a decade or so (I met them through him, they are part of our "gang" or social circle). They've had money issues but have still stayed together, and this year have adopted a little boy which has made both of them very happy (although they still have money issues.)

Unfortunately in my family, in my generation, I don't see a lot of that - I have 4 male cousins (2 each on maternal/parternal sides) . One never married (had a long term relationship that didn't work), one is divorced and raising his son (apparently she had problems), and one just got divorced after 10+ years. (The other one is married, not sure for how many years.)
Both my mom and my maternal uncle were married twice, as were my maternal grandparents.

However, my aunt and uncle on my dad's side have been married close to 50 years as were my paternal grandparents.

[gs.livejournal.com]

I think it's possible to be Working Through A Rough Time AND still GLAD to be in the relationship. However, I'm a)male and b)not sure what your definition of "Rough Time" is.

I can guess what Kathy might say, but you should probably ask her yourself.

[elynne.livejournal.com]

myles_otter and I have been in a relationship for - uh. Seven years? Maybe eight? I'm not really good at keeping track. ;) No, probably seven, because this September will be our 5th anniversary, and I think we were pre-married in various forms for about two years. So, yeah. :)

[thorswitch.livejournal.com]

Well, Matt and I will have been married for 8 years by the end of October - and we were a couple for a year before that (plus the other 6 years we were friends), and, for all my gousing about him, I really AM happy and very thankful to be in such a good marriage.... My parents are getting ready to celebrate their 39th or 40th in September, and Matt's parents had been married for around 25 years when his mother died... so there are a few out there. (And with the exception of my Dad, ALL of these are 1st marriages)

I don't know too many people my own age who've made it more than 10 years, but some of that may be because a lot of women have been putting off marriage until a bit later in life to get the career stuff underway first...

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

If it helps, I've been married to Tim for 24 years, and there have been times I've wanted to put a pillow over his face until he stopped breathing. But I'm, by no means, grinning and bearing it. We are still madly in love, best friends, have a kick ass time, and, most importantly, he makes me laugh in pure delight on a regular basis.

But there are times... :):)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I should've been more precise re "married" - I used that word as shorthand for "in a committed relationship, one that the people are hoping/intending/striving to make lifelong". I'd count me; I'd count you and Casey if you wanted to be counted. I wouldn't count, say, my friend Kim, even though she's been with her guy six years, because that isn't the kind of intent they had.

I love the exchange between the two women you mentioned. That is great. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah. The fact I don't KNOW many of these people doesn't mean they don't exist, of course. I wonder whether more people I know will fit these criteria as time goes on because

a) I'll start knowing people who are older
b) I may start deliberately choosing to know people who are happier

Worth a thought. Hmm.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yepper, your Chris is on my short list. I don't know her well MYSELF, but if she were grinning and bearing it, I'd be stunned if you didn't pick up on that and try to help address it.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree it's possible to be both. I guess I was using the "rough time" phrase the way some folks seem to use it: "We're really in trouble right now and we're deciding whether to stay together or just bag it." I realize some rough times aren't that, which is cool.

Your Kathy is (as I told Joe about his Chris - gak, too many name duplications here) on my short list. I don't know her well MYSELF, but if she were grinning and bearing it, I trust YOU would know. Some men would, some wouldn't, YOU would. In my opinion.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Casey and I have never actually said, "Let's try to make it lifelong." But I don't think either of us assumes it won't be. The way we work on problems indicates to me that our relationship is worth more than either of us even realizes, and that there's really nothing that would make one of us want to leave the other short of intentionally hurting one another, and I can't see that happening.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Agreed, our age group has not reached that kind of relationship duration in large numbers yet. And as I told wcg above, the fact I don't know these folks doesn't mean they aren't out there... it's just kind of depressing to look around and not see 'em.

Relationship role models. Wish I had more of them, more varied ones, more happy ones.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't mean that there wouldn't be times. I see you as happy in your marriage, overall. Wanna be on my list? :-)

Some people get to see a model of an overall happy marriage when they grow up, by watching their parents. Mine were, or I should say my mother was, miserable. She was waiting until the kids were old enough so she could leave. Then they went to years of marriage counseling, mostly to decide whether to bag it, and EIGHTEEN YEARS LATER are approaching something that looks "happy". Yeesh, what a lot of time she was sad.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure, but are you by any chance talking about a mutual friend? If you're talking about who I think you're talking about, it shook me up too!

Indeed I am. That was like a bucket of cold water on the head. Sigh.

I just did the same mental inventory you did and I couldn't come up with a single person.

Yeah. Of course, ideally we'd be looking at people a little older than ourselves, as not everyone in our generation got married in their early twenties. But still... our parents, grandparents, neighbors? Where are the happy ones? I need some role models here, darnit!

It is WAY more work than I ever thought it would be.

Ain't that the truth! At least you're DOING it, which is better than I did for a while - I put it off, which got us in trouble. Lots to fix now. Bad CJ, no biscuit; don't do that again!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

*laughter* I do relationship-math JUST LIKE THAT! "Let's see, it would be fourtee... no wait... my sophomore year was... we made vows in 1994, so... um..." I have to re-figure it out every time.

Nov 1986, ok, coming up on sixteen years together; just passed eight years promised. Heh. Just had to convince myself I could still figure it out. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it is depressing at times

Isn't it? But you are happy with your Kitty now, yes? Ten years from now I hope you are still happy. :-)

Welll...

[curmudgn]

If I could nominate myself here, my wife and I can count twenty years as a committed couple, eighteen of 'em married, and we don't seem to have hit a relationship-breaking event. (Certainly we've had some that were relationship-threatening, but the threats never came to the point.)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

In my family I don't see a lot of it either. We have very few divorces, but very few happy people. My grandparents were absolutely miserable until he died - and she's still miserable, frankly. My mom was miserable until I left high school, and eighteen years (!!) of therapy later, she's starting to become less miserable. Yeesh. Where are my role models? I want to see some happy ones, darnit!

Re: Welll...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Excellent! In my family, alas, long marriages did not indicate happiness; my role models for long-term commitments all included the women being miserable. I'm surprised I ever got interested in dating, with what I saw. *sigh*

So a while back I started deliberately searching for better r'ship role models. That's when this list got started...

[cassidyrose.livejournal.com]

I am incredibly happy with my Kitty now and I hope to remain so for many years to come.

[dawnd.livejournal.com]

I note a trend here, where if a relationship survives poly hell it seems to be stronger and more resilient in the long term. Hmmm... I wonder how general that is?

I think this is a pretty common occurance, whether for poly or mono relationships. "What don't kill ye, makes ye stronger!" I know that my relationship with my husband went through the fire in the mid 90's, and it's been getting steadily better ever since. The poly hell I've been through recently had nothing to do with my husband, thank goodness, because it meant he could support me through it.

[hopeforyou.livejournal.com]

sinboy and I have been together since September 1991. I think we're doing pretty well, overall, and we've been through a few rough times but never so bad that we considered the option of bagging it. We love each other a lot.

I'm not entirely sure what it would take for our relationship to transition (I don't know if it would end -- we'd always be friends, I think) and I hope I never find out. The past year was kinda rough with both of being unemployed for a stretch, but it's much better now.

[dawnd.livejournal.com]

And yet sometimes it's the right thing to see something die. Some friends of ours recently had a completion ceremony for their marriage. They held it on their 5th anniversary. Most of their friends were devastated when they heard the news, because these folks were "poly poster children." But helping them write the ceremony, and being there while they experienced it, while they gave this gift to their community--it became very clear that they were completing their marriage in the most loving way possible, that this was the right thing for them to do. In choosing this step now, they could leave each other with all the gifts that they had given each other over the years, and not descend into pain and bickering and nastiness. Perhaps your friends have also chosen to change the form of their relationship in order to preserve the love.

Just because a relationship ends, does not mean it's a failure.

Re:

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

I would be honoured to be on your list :):).

[elflet.livejournal.com]

I mentioned your post to Kathy, who smiled and said "have her call me, or email."

We're going on 12 years married, and over 16 years together, and are happy.

I'll send you the contact info in email.

One last comment

[the-ogre.livejournal.com]

7patches & I have been toghter for ~9.5 years, living together for just under 9 years, and married for ~7.5 years. Despite dome very recent weirdities, things look to be very stable.

Also, tow people that I don;t believe you know, blackfyr & lysana just celebrated their 15th wedding anniversary, and they also have a very stable relationship.

One last comment

[the-ogre.livejournal.com]

7patches & I have been toghter for ~9.5 years, living together for just under 9 years, and married for ~7.5 years. Despite some very recent weirdities, things look to be very stable.

Also, two people that I don;t believe you know, blackfyr & lysana just celebrated their 15th wedding anniversary, and they also have a very stable relationship.

[ambar.livejournal.com]

Kathy, let me add for cjsmith's benefit, is a joy.

[firecat]

Coming up on 11 years for OH and me, but I'd say we're working through a hard time right now.

When you said that your friend who just got divorced was praising her husband, do you mean she was hiding that there were problems in the relationship? I'm sure I wouldn't stop praising OH up until the end, if there is one. Just because it might turn out we're not entirely compatible, doesn't mean I'll consider him a monster.