Thursday, June 6th, 2002 01:10 pm
"I find outfits that are just sensational," says the former Charlie's Angel [Cheryl Ladd]. "And then I put them on and the sleeves are too long, the jacket is too long and I have to get everything almost remade for me." That's because at 5-feet, 4-inches tall, Ladd is considered petite.

According to this article, 43% of women are petite (er, hello? Let's make a definition that marginalizes nearly half of us) and we account for eleven percent of women's clothing spending. I find that telling. CLUE, clothing industry, getcha CLUE right ovah heah. When stuff doesn't fit WE BUY LESS OF IT.
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 01:37 pm (UTC)
Yup. Just like "average" size is a fourteen, yet anything above a 14 is considered "plus-size" and there are fewer choices. However, under a 14 and there are stores and choices abound.

I find it really infuriating that I am average height and size in this country, yet I have to buy "petite" suits in the largest standard size.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I can't remember when I didn't have to roll up pants so the length would fit.
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 03:32 pm (UTC)
I have a new phrase for "very stupid": "clothing-industry stupid" or "as stupid as the clothing industry". heh. wonder if it'll catch on even slightly.
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 03:29 pm (UTC)
5'4" is petite???? I thought that was flipping AVERAGE! Bizarre. And let's not even GO to tall land -- every pair of pants I wear becomes 3/4 pants after two washings, and if I want a sleeve to reach to my wrist, I buy in the men's department. Half my shirts are too short to tuck in if I wanted to. (I'm only 5'10", I'm not 6'4" or something!)

Me thinks pre-manufactured clothing was in general a bad idea ..... especially given the bizarre STEREOTYPES about women that seem to influence clothing manufacturing -- making clothes for what size they "should be" instead of what size they *are* ....
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 03:38 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that's part of my point: petite is almost exactly average. Hellooooo? :-)

I really wish I had a backup option such as buying in the men's department. In fact, I wish I could buy in the men's department period; there are quite a few good styles and colors of shirts and sweaters there.

I like (er, mumble, forgot his name)'s idea of "custom mass production" (er, ok, forgot quite the phrase he used as well). The idea is to create a way of making objects such that a list of settings can be easily changed for each object. People with wide but short feet just use the settings width=EE, length=size5 and get what they need. The next pair of shoes could have different settings. This would work well if production were extremely automated and were moved close to the end consumer physically, much like photo development is. Imagine a clothing-maker machine the size of an automated photo lab machine, sitting at every Macy's counter. The rest of the shop has a few sample styles on display or to try on, and big reams of fabric. Maybe not 100% practical, but I know I'd pay a premium for it. Maybe 43% of women would too... not to mention taller women, larger women...
Friday, June 7th, 2002 06:14 am (UTC)
Yep, I'd pay too! Sounds great! You mean I would actually be able to get size 10 1/2 shoes??? (All but the most expensive stores have stopped selling half-sizes above 10 in women's shoes -- and many of the expensive stores have too).
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 03:41 pm (UTC)
Me thinks pre-manufactured clothing was in general a bad idea ..... especially given the bizarre STEREOTYPES about women that seem to influence clothing manufacturing -- making clothes for what size they "should be" instead of what size they *are* ....

AMEN! clothes shopping is a highly frustrating event for nearly every woman i know. i'm 5'8 ~ too tall for "average" and too short for "tall" when it comes to jeans. it's insane. i'm fortunate that i have a seamstress for a neighbor, and she has reasonable rates. So far she's only done alterations for me, but methinks i'll be hiring her to tailor-make some clothing later this year.
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 03:58 pm (UTC)
I want to go kidnap your neighbor. *sigh*

Thursday, June 6th, 2002 04:11 pm (UTC)
right now, she comes with a nursing four-week-old, so consider yourself forwarned. ;-) but she's fabulous.
(oh, sorry about my whole last comment being in bold!)
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 04:41 pm (UTC)
If I find pants that fit my fat waist they are WAY too long. I detest trying on and buying clothes...
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:18 pm (UTC)
I detest trying on and buying clothes, too. Let's just not even get STARTED on being the wrong shape: if I can get pants on over my big butt, they are at least four inches too big in the waist, let alone the length or the rise or whether I can pull them up to put socks on!
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 05:58 pm (UTC)
Thats nothing...I have a 46R chest, broad shoulders and a 35" waist. Good luck finding a basic black cocktail dress!

And the shoes! Oy!
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:16 pm (UTC)
You might do very well shopping in San Francisco. Consider yourself invited. :-)
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:29 pm (UTC)
I suspect that if I visited SF I'd have other things I'd want to do ahead of drag shopping.(wink,wink, nudge, nudge)
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:35 pm (UTC)
Oh, that's right! A previous post of yours mentioned something else you'd like to do. Well, if you get up to the City I'm sure you'll be able to find many volunteers. ;-)

*ducking and running*
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:38 pm (UTC)
Egads, I'm being hoisted on my own petard!
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:05 pm (UTC)

And what about if yer petite and plus?  My wife can just about for-fuckin’-get finding anything approximating a size 18 for her 5’1” frame.

Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:22 pm (UTC)
Yah, no kidding. (See also [livejournal.com profile] cassidyrose's comment.) The other day I tagged along while a friend of mine bought a shirt. She happens to be both tall and big around, so we were in the "Woman" section (what a horrid label -- I'm small therefore I'm not a woman). We prowled the whole place, and I saw absolutely no subsection marked "Petite".
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:21 pm (UTC)
Petite materntity clothes - very hard to find. There's a size "Petite" - that's like a size 2. Most of the pants I bought have the crotch in the wrong place for a 5 1 1/2" woman - especially because there's extra fabric to cover the growing middle. I did buy a size 12 P pair of jeans via Pennies catalogue - happilly they fit :) (Maybe the regular size one's will fit better as I get bigger and I won't have to roll the waistband - that was a very nice tip from the maternity store saleswoman).


Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:36 pm (UTC)
Petite materntity clothes

Ooo, I hadn't even thought of that. If I ever get pregnant and choose to continue living, I will probably wear a bathrobe for five or six months!!
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:52 pm (UTC)
I bought pants in the regular "plus size" section of Kmart when I was pregnant. I normally wore a size 12 or so at that point. I found that a 1x or 2x pant was pretty good for me during most of my pregnancy. And hecka cheaper than buying actual maternity clothes!
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 06:49 pm (UTC)
Don't get me started! I'm one of those that defies EVERY size category. Too short for Average, to big for Petite, a size 14-16 (most of the time, except when I'm not....), which is on the top end of all the "normal" stores, and the bottom end of all the "plus size" stores, so nobody ever has anything in my size: "I'm sorry, we had one of those, but it sold right away." Well, if it SOLD right away, why didn't you ORDER MORE?! Long torso, short legs, means that I wear a TALL bathing suit style and have to SHORTEN petite pants! If it fits my butt, it's too long in the front rise most of the time. And it's actually EASIER, after I had my daughter. I used to have a THREE SIZE difference between my waist and my hips--just TRY to find jeans for that!! Now it's only 1 to 2 sizes (my ribcage got bigger during pregnancy), and it is POSSIBLE to find stuff that fits, well, sorta-fits.

Elastic waists are my friends. I like Capri pants--they come down right at my ankles! And I wear a lot of skirts--which I notice, CJ, that you do too! I don't care if they're out of style, I'm still buying pants that are tight at the ankles, because I don't have to shorten them--I just let them bunch up.

43% of women are "petite"--in a pig's eye! What's normal, then???
Fashion Industry: Get a clue, get a grip, and get your heads out of your collective *sses!
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 07:14 pm (UTC)
YYYYYYYYYYESSSSS! You tell 'em! 8-) 8-)

I too am quite the size mishmash.

Shirts: "medium" or size 8 to 10. T-shirts: "small", because they're sized for unisexmen. Torso length: shorter than anything ever made. T-shirt designs are unreadable on me because my belt cuts them off (but does anyone move the design up on a small? noooooo).

Chest: 28DD is my best guess (though in any sane measuring system I would be a C cup at most). That's only a guess because I have never seen a bra that fits properly. I buy 32D, ignore that little extra of me that pooches out at the top, and cut a couple inches outta the back strap. That puts the cups too far apart but what can ya do?

Pants: "small" or size 6, except: butt, "medium", and waist, extra extra tiny. Rise: apparently larger than anything ever made. Inseam: too short for normal, too long for petite, one inch too short to fly most mass produced aircraft.

Shoes: 5 1/2 EE is my best guess, but I have never seen those so I don't know; I buy sevens and hope for the best. Socks: smaller than anything made for adults. Hats: five and a quarter, which means I can't buy anything in any store because every single hat is one size doesn't-fit all.

I can't even find EYEGLASSES to fit.

I do, apparently, fit standard pony-tail elastics. I guess that's something.
Thursday, June 6th, 2002 10:21 pm (UTC)
LOL!

Well, even if it's hard to clothe, at least your body is, ummm, eyecatching! Wonder how many ponytail elastics it would take to create a dress?
Friday, June 7th, 2002 10:50 am (UTC)
um, er, um, er, *blush*

I bet it would be quite an interesting dress. I'm imagining something giving the appearance of knit, but done by knotting each elastic with several others a la chainmail.
Friday, June 7th, 2002 04:48 pm (UTC)
Well, I'm sure if you created it, and wore it to a con or something, there would be a LOOOONG line waiting to see you model it! Hee hee. Count me in!

Regarding shoes--I had a friend in college who was (if I'm remembering correctly) a 4 1/2 E. She referred to herself as "Roundfoot."

More grousing about the Fashion Industry--apparently something like 90% of women in this country wear shoes that are too narrow. I know even I have a hard time finding stuff that fits right, and I'm not *that* far off average in that department. Though, post-pregnancy, I now sometimes need a 9 1/2--and many shoe companies don't even carry THAT, let alone a 10 1/2 (which is what [livejournal.com profile] akienm wears in a women's shoe--he prefers women's boots for their style).

Cobbie's shoes (I know there's one at Southland) has a pretty wide (pun not intended, but accepted) selection--any luck there? Not the most "fashionable", but sometimes they have decent stuff. And if you could get them to measure you properly, perhaps you could special order, or order over the Internet? You can get *anything* over the web....
Friday, June 7th, 2002 04:57 pm (UTC)
I'm trying to figure out how to make enough attachment knots in each elastic... hmmmm...

I have the exact same shoe size as my high school pal who had a vestigial sixth toe. Still, I can buy some European styles and do okay. None of them are fashionable. I look like a golfer or something. But I'm not in pain, which (in a business setting at least) is a win. Next after finding a good tailor/seamstress is probably a cobbler who'll do custom work!
(Anonymous)
Friday, June 7th, 2002 01:05 am (UTC)
and then there's my friend who buys landsend hem-them-yourself jeans, because in her size they are 6" longer than any other pants that size... and then doesn't hem them at all, since they're actually long enough that way...

oh, and take another look at cYN's wedding pictures: the purple outfits that Valerie and Nancy wore? Handmade for them by a local seamstress, for less than alterations would have cost (Nancy's still nursing, and Valerie gave birth a couple of weeks before the wedding.) Custom doesn't have to be expensive. (and margaret was an adorable match...)

_Mark_
Friday, June 7th, 2002 10:51 am (UTC)
I liked those purple outfits (and I loved Margaret's!). Unfortunately, custom usually IS expensive... I wanna find a really good seamstress/tailor.