Car choices

[cjsmith]

Test-drove a 2007 Corolla. If I buy one of those, I know exactly what I want on it. (Well, almost. Undecided about sunroof: just another thing to go wrong?) Spent lots of time fiddling with it in the parking lot and on the road, and it passed almost all of my tests.* That's pretty good.

Not at all firm on the decision for a Corolla though. Should drive a Yaris too. Better turning radius, a tinch better mileage, fewer frills available. Want to compare the two on trunk space. Would have done that today if I didn't have to get to the airport.

Should also drive that 2001 Prius before somebody buys the dang thing. Financially stupid to consider it, I know. Its batteries have half their useful life gone already, and I know darn well I don't drive enough to warrant a Prius even at used prices. Ah well. I may drive it anyway. :-)

____________
* Failures:
- No way to get cassette-playing capability. Would have to replace the radio right off the bat to get it.
- Cup holders suck. They're there but they can't be retracted and they fit only one size of object.
- Recirc exists only when the windshield air vents are turned off. Stoopid interlock.
- Timer turns rear window defrost off. Every car will fail this, though, and I know I can change it.
- Right-side mirror does not fold.
- Turning radius is distinctly mediocre compared to what I'm used to.

Comments

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

I think you might like a Civic like Dan's. It's the mid-line one, not the basic, and doesn't have a sunroof. Doesn't have a cassette, either, but will play MP3s on CD.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Mm, yes, this will play MP3s as well if I remember right. I admit I haven't looked at anything but Toyotas. I needed a way to narrow the field so I could make progress. The fact I can still drive my car gives me time, though, and Hondas are reliable.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

If you're considering the Yaris, be sure to also take a look at a Honda Fit.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Mm, yes, I've had the Honda Fit mentioned to me. Thanks for the reminder. I think the Corolla, Civic, Yaris, and Fit are all possibly in the running. (And that one used Prius, but truly that's silly and I know it.)

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I suggest it because I did some comparisons of the two (Yaris/Fit) back a few months ago. If I were going to buy one or the other I'd definitely buy the Fit.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh interesting. Why, if I may ask? What made the Fit better for you?

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Lots of little things, but mostly because it's more nimble. It's quick and I don't get the feeling that I'd have to downshift going up every little hill.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Hmm, pointing out the importance of how it feels to drive the thing. I am prone to deciding by the book instead of by feel, so I need to include feel! Thanks.

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

We thought about both the Fit and the Yaris when we replaced Dan's truck, but after being burned a few times we figured out that buying a car that's in its first production year is a bad idea because they don't always have all the bugs worked out.

Of course, YMMV :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there is that. :-/

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

Undecided about sunroof: just another thing to go wrong?

In my opinion: Yes. Mine hasn't had a problem yet, but I expect it will break and/or leak sooner than a solid roof would, and it doesn't appear to be good for anything in exchange for the potential problems.

I never wanted a sunroof, but I had to get a one when I bought my 2000 Mazda Protegé because it was the only way to get anti-lock brakes and side air bags. See, those two safety features were only available in a $1500 package with the sunroof -- sorry, moonroof (what the hell is the difference? is there a difference?) -- and keyless entry system. Turned out the keyless entry system didn't include a trunk opener (which drives me crazy, because when your arms are full of stuff is when you need it!) and I never use the heavenly-body-roof. It's the first one I've ever had, and I thought it would help in hot weather -- leave the hole in the roof cracked and the windows cracked slightly and the hot air would vent itself, right? Nope. I never noticed a particle of difference.

If you like open windows, you might like a sunroof. I prefer to keep the windows closed when I'm going more than about 40 mph because of the noise, and the whatever-it-is-roof is very noisy at those speeds. And it doesn't let any air in, it just makes noise and reduces gas mileage. So I pretty much never use it. If it's good for something, I hope someone will tell me, because after 6 years I still haven't figured out what that might be.

Incidentally, a remote control entry system is worth the money. When it's raining, when you're alone in a dark parking lot, when your hands are full of stuff ... it's terrific not to have to fumble trying to get the key into the lock and remember which way to turn it. Make sure it opens the trunk, too, though. Or do all cars come with keyless entry systems now? I know they have those $150 keys that are radio controlled or something -- I just have regular keys and a little pushbutton doohickey, but it's great.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

The way manufacturers package options together is, in my not at all humble opinion, asinine. I'm sorry you had to get something you considered a negative in order to get the safety features you wanted.

Rob's moonroof in his Saturn was a constant source of trouble. It wasn't that it broke all THAT often, just that when it did they had to disassemble the entire top of the car to fix it. Bad. We mostly left it broken. However, Toyota engineering is in our experience (two Toyotas and two Saturns) WAY WAY BETTER, so maybe a Corolla moonroof would last longer. ...or maybe not. Leaking sure would suck.

Moonroof = the more common thing, with a translucent or transparent piece and an opaque piece. Sunroof = one single thick opaque open-able panel. If I'm remembering right, that is. It's been quite a while since I paid attention to those definitions. I think people like these things because they like the extra light. Me, I always liked being able to stand up in stopped traffic. ;-)

Hmm, the Corolla keyfob I saw didn't open the trunk. I need to ask about that. Thanks for reminding me!

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

The way manufacturers package options together is, in my not at all humble opinion, asinine.

To say the least. I did a lot of ranting about that at the time.

However, Toyota engineering is in our experience (two Toyotas and two Saturns) WAY WAY BETTER, so maybe a Corolla moonroof would last longer. ...or maybe not.

Maybe not is right. The windows on my '93 Corolla are the reason why I got a Mazda instead of a Toyota last time. Right after the warranty expired the driver's window suddenly slumped down several inches. Fortunately it wasn't raining at the time, but when I tried to activate the mechanism to close it, first nothing happened ... and then the window fell all the way down!

It was supposed to storm that night so we had to get out there and cover it with plastic and seal it with huge amounts of tape (which was a pain to clean up later). It turned out to be the regulator (http://www.arvinmeritor.com/media/Low_Resolution/car_and_light_truck_products/door_systems/CPDS001L.jpg) -- the part that physically moves the window up and down. It had nothing to do with whether the regulator was powered by electricity or a manual crank -- the regulator just plain failed.

I browbeat Ken (who insisted he'd never done anything like that and didn't know how) into trying to fix it with the argument that if he succeeded we'd save a lot of money, and if he failed it wouldn't cost anything more because I'd have to have it fixed anyway. Fortunately he did fix it, so it cost me "only" about $95 (plus gas to drive an hour and a half round trip to the only dealer that had one in stock and listening to a lot of bitching and moaning).

That was bad enough, but I would have put it down to a fluke that could happen on any car ... if the same thing hadn't happened to the other front window a few months later! Evidently the damn things weren't made properly and failed after a certain amount of usage. If I had had to get it fixed by a dealer and paid $200 or $300 for each repair I probably would have gone to Toyota and tried to see if there was a secret warranty (http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=721&scid=112) about those things, but since Ken now knew how to do it (albeit with another heaping helping of bitching and moaning) we just trotted back to the dealer and bought another one and Ken fixed it.

But I really distrusted Toyota after that, and bought a Mazda. Which I now regret since the stress crack in the windshield and the broken door lock were also due to bad engineering, bad parts, or bad assembly.

Moonroof = the more common thing, with a translucent or transparent piece and an opaque piece.

That's the kind I have. I still call it a sunroof. I do occasionally open the sliding panel to let light in in the winter, but mostly it just causes unpleasant glare so I rarely do that. And the glass-opening part is useless, at least for me.

the Corolla keyfob I saw didn't open the trunk. I need to ask about that.
My keyfob has a place for another button, but it just has a solid plug in it, so obviously it's even the same fob -- I guess it's just a matter of paying a little more to have the receiver and mechanism installed installed in the trunk. That's something I do feel is worth the money. I wish I'd known to ask, but it's my first remote control entry system and everyone else I've ever ridden with (including Meredith) can open their trunk with it, so I just assumed that was the way they all worked. I didn't find out until I got the car home that the trunk didn't open automagically. :-(

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh weird. Did the regulator physically break? I've had a window slip part way out of one, once (don't remember why or how) but it was easy to get back in.

I admit I dislike power windows, power locks, and all that other UNNECESSARY CRAP that breaks a lot more than manual. One reason I've loved my car for so long is that it doesn't have unnecessary crap and therefore it doesn't BREAK all the time!

Yep, most people call both thingies a sunroof.

The Corolla keyfob had only two buttons. Gotta go look... thanks for the reminder.

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

If it's good for something, I hope someone will tell me, because after 6 years I still haven't figured out what that might be.

I find that in combination with the vents being open it makes for a lot more flow-through at speed. But then I am totally a windows-down kind of girl. I refuse to use my AC when it is less than 90 out because windows are so much nicer.

But the REAL advantage to a sunroof, IMO, is that leaving it cracked when the car is parked in the sun results in reduced interior temperature. Much more effective than leaving the windows cracked because of that whole hot air flowing upwards thing. I pretty much don't close mine for the entire dry season.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I like windows-down too, except when there are other cars on the road ;-) (smokers, people playing loud music, etc). OK, I'm exaggerating. I do enjoy riding with the windows down.

Mmmm, yes, cracking it while parked. Good reminder; thanks.

[nosrednayduj]

Of course I love my 2001 prius. We have a friend who has gone 240K miles on his 2001 prius with no electrical system problems -- don't knock the battery life, it's spec'd low. We haven't quite hit the 80K warranty yet on ours; just about to with about 75K on it.

Re your checklist:

- Sure would be nice if I'd stop getting red scrapes on my neck from the seat belt.

There are little plastic gadgets you can get that snap onto the seat belt to allow you to get it off your neck. Totally unobtrusive when not in use, simple to install. My housemate put one on most seatbelts in our cars so she can be comfy no matter where she ends up sitting, and carries one in her luggage on trips to modify rentals.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure folks really know yet what the battery life really should be; it's spec'd in terms of years, not miles or charge cycles (odd in itself, I'd think) and the Prius isn't that old yet.

Still, I drive 8kilomiles/yr tops. Financially a Prius isn't the best choice for my habits. I also like to keep cars 17 years, and we don't have that kind of data on the longevity of this chunk of engineering. It mainly has the "in crowd" factor, plus supporting cool technology, which I suppose I wouldn't be, much, by buying used.

I've always thought about buying one of those seat-belt-off-the-neck gadgets and (sheesh, for how long?) never got around to it! Fortunately pretty much everybody these days has the kind where the anchor point can be raised and lowered.

I have been amused for years by the "If the seat belt is near the child's face or neck, put the child in the rear seat" thing. I don't drive very well from the rear seat. :)

Out of curiosity, I've also always idly wondered where such a gadget winds up if you do have a crash. My seat belt buckle lost a chunk of its plastic half in this recent impact, and that piece wound up on the other side of the car. What would happen to a little gadget sitting by my face? I'm sure it's designed to break; I just don't know where it tends to go.

Totally Off Topic: I want to thank you hugely for sending me those square dance announcements even though we both know I can't (currently) go. I feel thought-of; I feel included. I smile every time I see one. Thanks. :-)

[nosrednayduj]

Well, the location of the gadget isn't near your face, but nearer your chest. I spoze it could leave a dent; I really don't know. There are also larger gadgets which are made of cordura-like material and would no doubt be better in an actual crash. They are less convenient and tend to make the seatbelt flap out into the doorjamb as you try to close the door.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh interesting. I always thought the gadget sat up higher. Of course, I've never used one. I just see pictures of them in junk-mail catalogs. :-)

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

I loved my moonroof on my 2001 Jetta. It was pretty much the only thing I liked about that car (big purchasing mistake). I owned the car for three years and three transmissions. The moonroof gave me a lot of pleasure because it always opened smoothly so that I could watch the clouds in the sky while waiting for a tow from AAA.

Timer turns rear window defrost off. Every car will fail this, though

This statement surprises me because I don't think it's true of my Scion xB. I don't remember having the defrost turn off during my trips along I-5 between here and SoCal and I almost always have to have it on after dark along that road between November and March.

Since my Scion is made by Toyota, and assuming that I'm correct, you might find that other Toyotas and other makes of cars have more sensible defrosts.

As to cassette decks, how important are they? Aren't cassette tapes getting difficult to acquire? (I honestly don't know -- I've been ripping all my music and burning to CD since 2000) An MP3 player might serve you better. Many cars have them as standard equipment and, of course, you can replace the standard audio equipment with better after-market products for better prices than car industry's upgrades.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

it always opened smoothly so that I could watch the clouds in the sky while waiting for a tow from AAA.

HAHAHA! Man, that's awful.

I don't think it's true of my Scion xB.

Hey, cool! Not that it's much of an issue since my move to California, really. I'm too finicky for my own good.

Aren't cassette tapes getting difficult to acquire?

They're becoming less common, yeah. We have a large collection of language-learning tapes and lectures/books on tape that I'd like to be able to use. You're right that a third-party radio would cost me less than the upgrade. Sadly, I am told you can't get a Corolla in this region without the upgrade ANYWAY. (grr. need to check on veracity of this.) Still, this is a small piece of a big picture.

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

"I don't think it's true of my Scion xB."

Hey, cool! Not that it's much of an issue since my move to California, really. I'm too finicky for my own good.

It just occurred to me that manufacturers might think that we consumers think that having the defrost on a timer is some sort of benefit. If I'm right that my Scion's defrost doesn't automatically shut off (unless I turn off the ignition), then the timer's absence could be part of the way they keep the features and costs down on a Scion. Toyota offers very few extras for Scions. Things like cruise control and moonroofs are not even available as add-ons. The only extras available for Scions from the dealers and manufacturers are flash -- color-changing LED light in the cup holder ($300!), LED lights around the footwells, and other cheesey stuff.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yes, I suspect they do think the timer is a benefit. I'm not often in agreement with them about what's of value. Color-changing LED light in the cup holder? Power windows (far less reliable than manual)? An antenna sticking up out of the middle of the roof, rather than along the side and retractable like it used to be? Bleh. :)

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

An antenna sticking up out of the middle of the roof, rather than along the side and retractable like it used to be?

I don't think they make many cars with exterior antennae anymore. It's worked into the back glass.

I do like my power windows, though, and am glad that stripped-down as the xB is, it has them. I hate going through tollbooths and having to deal with a window crank.

I wish someone would manufacture and sell a reliable vehicle where nearly everything is extra. I want to select everything and then wait six to twelve months for them to make it just for me. The lack of instant gratification in exchange for exactly what I want would be a worthy trade.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

The Corolla has its antenna smack in the middle of the rear edge of the roof. Stoooopid.

If I dealt with tollbooths more often I'd be more in favor of the power windows. That sure is helpful.

I like your idea of a reliable vehicle, lots of extra options, and a special order. I suppose people in my situation (car just got totaled, need another) wouldn't be likely to enjoy the wait, but there will always be someone to supply instant gratification.

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

The Corolla has its antenna smack in the middle of the rear edge of the roof. Stoooopid.

That is stupid! What were they thinking? It's not like we don't have the technology and experience to make a nonstupid contraption for radio reception.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

It reminds me of some of the drawbacks to the design of the human, um, the human uh... er... Except that with an antenna, there's really no bonus to being able to fiddle with it.

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

The Corolla has its antenna smack in the middle of the rear edge of the roof. Stoooopid.

I have one of those on my Passat and I've never had any problems with it whatsoever. What makes you say it is stupid? Maybe there's something about having a wagon that makes it work better than a sedan, I honestly don't know, it just never occurred to me to complain about it and in fact I think it looks kinda cute there!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Hmm, a fair enough question! I figured it would prevent mounting anything on the roof (say, to carry a canoe) and would be much more prone to being snagged, bent, or broken (say, in a car wash or driving under low stuff) than something that could be retracted. The old A-pillar retractable design seems more protected.

Thanks for the sanity check on my perspective. Since it seems fairly reasonable to assume I'll wind up with a new Corolla, I may want to remind myself that the antenna placement is also cute!

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

I suppose it might get in the way of carrying a canoe. I hadn't thought of that. But since I don't own one I don't expect it to be too much of a problem.

The problem I've heard of with the retractable antennae is that if they ever get bent even a little bit they stop being able to retract.

My cadillac has one of those antennae that are integral to the windshield. The reception is ASS. Though I imagine they've improved on the technology somewhat since the early 70s :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I had a manually retractable antenna -- you could bend it quite a bit and I'd still force it back down into the frame. :) I can imagine that the electric thingummies would be a bit more fragile.

Yech, I didn't know the windshield ones were so crappy.

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

I hear you on the cup holder thing - I bought an iced coffee at McDonalds yesterday and it wasn't nicely tapered like DunkinDonuts is. But there is a gadget I've seen that lets the cupholder adjust - basically it has an adjustable taper to fit bigger containers, I need to get a new one for the Cavalier.

I also don't have remote entry - but I wish I did with Alan and Mark in the car as Mark never carries a car key for my car. And I could keep the doors locked for Alan.

I passed some Fit's on the road - the thing I don't like is that there appears to be very little trunk space - I have no garage - so I need to carry car stuff in my trunk -I wonder how much room is left after that.

(I also like the Matrix/Pontiac Vibe - maybe that's too big for you.)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Right, a stupid cup holder can be worked around with an after-market gadget. Not that there's any excuse for the design of the current Corolla cup holders. I guess they have to give you some reason to buy a Camry.

Yes, the Matrix or Vibe are definitely noticeably bigger. I'll stick with small for my needs. Gotta check out the trunk space on the Fit. I, too, carry my car stuff in my trunk!