Signaling

[cjsmith]

This morning I was thinking we need a way to signal straight.

Let's say I'm wanting to flirt with a chick. Let's say I don't know whether she's straight or not, and she doesn't know whether I am either. And it's way too early in this tentative teeny tiny flirtation here for the soul-searing horror of having to BRING IT UP IN CONVERSATION. That might let her know what I'm thinkin', see, and that's scary.

So I can signal not-straight. I can wear rainbow stuff, or triangles (how outdated!), or a number of other things. Some have the added advantage that few non-queer-friendly folk get the message. It's like a secret code. And with every single one of 'em I can deny that I made a point of sending the message at all. Oh, no, I always wear my Michfest T-shirt on odd-numbered Tuesdays.

If I'm in luck, and she's not only not-straight but might be interested, my hypothetical cute gal can signal back. But she doesn't have any code she can send back, subtly, without loss of face on either side, to say she's straight. She can oh-so-casually mention a current or previous boyfriend, but that's awkward -- it commits the sin of bringing the subject closer to ACTUAL CONVERSATION, which as noted before is verboten this early in the game. Plus it does not successfully signal not-bi.

I suggest pinstripes.

Comments

[branwynelf.livejournal.com]

That last line made me choke on my coffee. Not sure why, but it has me giggling.

Pinstripes! Hee!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh good! I have correctly signaled "silly"! :-)

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

You've got a VOR continually emitting the silly code, ma'am. ;-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ah yes. My three-letter identifier is SLY:
...
._..
_.__

My alter ego who goes around killing everyone who displeases me also likes the code SLY. :-)

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Being of that particular demographic, of course I've never thought of that - I think being straight is treated similarly to the concepts of darkness and cold (they don't really exist, they're just the absence of something else). I don't think that's right, on several levels, but I don't know if anything else will come up with regard to a different way of treating signalling until societal acceptance of not-straight people improves greatly.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I know it's treated that way, and in practical terms (for the majority) it even makes sense -- "nine out of ten" don't need the signal. But y'know, the other coupla million folks might like one. So maybe in a place like the San Francisco Bay Area, full of geeky people AND queer-aware folk, we might invent one. I hope it's better than pinstripes though!

[palecur.livejournal.com]

How about a taco with the red circle/slash for girls and a hot dog with the red circle/slash for boys?

this is all I could dig up on a quick google image search:

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

"Boycott Taco Bell" might be a little toooo far on the subtle side. ;-)

[abz6598.livejournal.com]

This morning I was thinking we need a way to signal straight.


A wedding ring would seem a good start.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ain't what mine means.

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

BOOyah! Mine, neither!!

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Oh no it wouldn't.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Maybe it would have to be a pinstriped wedding ring. Y'know, to signal that the person is married and straight. ;-)

I swear I haven't had lots of sugar or caffeine today. This mood is all-natural!

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Not even.

[faeryguinevere.livejournal.com]

Doesn't work for me either.

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

Um (to add to the cacophony), no.

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

Here's how I see the problem:

Chris wants to tap the ass of Terry, but does not know if Terry would welcome said ass tappery from Chris. In this case, the cause of Chris's concern is both that Terry's plumbing is the same as that of Chris and that great big icky sploogey white head on the end of Chris's nose. So Chris performs a socially scripted mating ritual (May I join you for a drink? Would you like to join me for dinner at RESTAURAT REPUTED FOR DIM LIGHT? etc).

The trouble is that the socially scripted mating ritual is vague. Terry may not clue in that an ass tapping attempt is in progress, interpreting the ritual instead as a friendship creation ritual.

Such is the current state of dating.

What you're looking for is a way to do what dating people universally want to do -- remove everyone from the buffet that would not be interested in romantic and/or sexual encounters with you.

When you find this item, patent it, market it, buy gems and precious metals, and take a treasure bath.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

That's an even better signal! I want to have a worldwide distribution network for T-shirts stating WOULD WELCOME ASS-TAPPERY FROM CJ and WOULD NOT WELCOME ASS-TAPPERY FROM CJ. The former would get you into all the good buffets.

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

For you, the world should wear a t-shirt with the name of the fart that makes them giggle the most in order to attract your attentions.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Or a T-shirt with a really adorable kitten on it. Or something like your usericon, or even a T-shirt stating CLEAVAGE IS POWER. Or clever multilingual puns. Or an Aresti diagram (acro maneuvers). Or...

...maybe this is a bit too much of a window into my psyche for this post. :-)

MY T-shirt reads:

[just-cyd.livejournal.com]

"Would Welcome Ass Tappery from CJ's Powerful Cleavage"

naturally, that won't do squat when in the vicinity of HPC.

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I am so glad I wasn't drinking anything carbonated!

Nah, for HPC you might have to go with a Michfest shirt.

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[just-cyd.livejournal.com]

I am so glad I wasn't drinking anything carbonated!

SCORE!!!! *does a funky end-zone dance*

Nah, for HPC you might have to go with a Michfest shirt.

that, my bi-pride necklaces or my rainbow dancing women (http://www.northernsun.com/cgi-bin/ns/1554N2.html) tshirt. but it's cold here now, so i'll have to make a point of having my coat unbuttoned or off for her to see what i'm wearing. a little pharmacy aisle striptease, hmmm?

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Hee! Michfest is more recognizable, I think... bi-pride can go completely unnoticed even in queer heaven, oddly enough. *snork*

I dunno if you guessed, but HPC inspired this post. There should be signals for all this stuff, darnit! I mean really! She could easily signal back with something small, even if she has to wear a uniform at work.

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[just-cyd.livejournal.com]

bi-pride can go completely unnoticed even in queer heaven, oddly enough.

oh, believe me, i know. *rolls eyes*

I dunno if you guessed, but HPC inspired this post.

no, i didn't! i just figured you'd found a new plaything, or had a coworker you were trying to de-code.

She could easily signal back with something small, even if she has to wear a uniform at work.

i always look for jewelry. necklaces, earrings, rings, etc. multiple earrings could mean anything, but charms on necklaces are usually a little more straighforward (er, um, uh, you get my meaning!). i don't recall her wearing huge crosses or crucifixes, so that's a good sign.

i'll head back this week sometime to check her out (and fish for feedback on the 'nana bread), and report in. ;-)

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Nope, I don't have anyone in mind at all. I was hoping for good communication for you. :-)

Let me know how she liked the banana bread!

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Cold weather and thin shirts can go just fine together. :)

Re: MY T-shirt reads:

[just-cyd.livejournal.com]

mmm, yes, there is that. ;-)

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I'll take one of those "Would Welcome" t-shirts, if you please.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

We're still working on the digital buffet entry key woven into the tag, but we'll ship your order as soon as we can.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Thanks. In the meantime, I'll just have to come up with some way to remind you of the critical information from time to time.

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

Where does the line form for these shirts? And can we find extra-huge baby doll Ts for people like me?

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

You! You have used this term! Perhaps you can explain it to me!

When you want to "tap someone's ass", does that mean you want to tap it with a light, sharp strike, or you want to tap it like a keg?

[therobbergirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, why must I choose? ;)

I have no idea of its origins. My husband's mouth pollutes my pure and decent mind. When he declares in that oh-so-gentlemanly way of his that he wishes to tap someone's ass, he means that he would like to engage in coitus with that person. I suppose that would equate to a keg.

palecur? 'Splain it.

[palecur.livejournal.com]

I believe 'tapping' is originally derived from the slapping of the partner's pert, lovely ass while engaged in soi-disant 'doggy style' intercourse.

or they could mean 'baby, I want to tap you like Chevron wants to tap the reserves in ANWR' -- that is, bringing sadly neglected and badly needed resources into the marketplace (in this case, a marketplace of one).

A 'tap' is also a device for creating screw threads in pipes -- the 'screw' connection makes it a great reverse-etymology pick, but I consider it highly unlikely as a real source.

Ultimately my guesses for 'tap' stem from the ass-slapping above and also as an informal 'counting coup' -- tapping to signify you've 'scored.'

See also: "I'd hit it," which implies no actual hitting but merely a desire to engage in activity of a sexual nature.

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

A 'tap' is also a device for creating screw threads in pipes

Aah, that's great! I don't care if it's inaccurate, that's what I'm claiming it means from now on.

[genderfur.livejournal.com]

I read it as "like patting the ass".

But "tap it like a keg"??? That is deliciously nasty!

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

Have I told you lately that I love the way your mind works? I do. Seriously.

[hitchhiker.livejournal.com]

what she said!

[lcohen]

i am so glad you asked this question!

(saved me the trouble, it did.)

[dafydd.livejournal.com]

See, now, when I read the first line of this post, I thought you were going to talk about some idiot driver on the roads...

[busysuzy.livejournal.com]

So did I! I guess that goes to show how painfully straight I am! ; )

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Augh! Another great post of mine, thus far unwritten! We need that signal TOO. Along with a (possibly out-of-band) signal for "This driver has no idea what blinking lights happen to be doing on his car, so please ignore them all, both those that blink and those that are currently dark. In fact, honk when you pass, so you wake him up before he misses his exit."

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

PAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[eichin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my general impression of CA drivers last time I was there (6 or 7 years ago?) was that right-on-red was no problem but they could use some help with the whole "straight-ahead-on-green" concept. (I also thought "traffic" when I read the first sentence, then thought "wait, no, this is CJ writing..." :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember griping when I first arrived that "straight ahead on green" was the toughie. "Straight ahead on red" they've got the hang of (except for preemptive lefts, which are completely unknown here), and "straight through a stop sign without looking" is popular, but God help you if you want to go when the light turns green.

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

I have no idea. I think I've been more often in the position of needing people to do a better job of signalling "not straight". But if this catches on, let me know.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Here I was all set to say, "CJ, meet T_S," forgetting you had. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Just once, but yeah. joedecker's birthday party a few weeks ago.

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

I did have the idea for my post before I saw hers, just so you know.

and yeah, we met at joedecker's

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I thought it was nifty that we were both thinking about all the odd and so often indirect communication that happens around flirting. It's a subject that just keeps coming up, because one person's solution often doesn't work for the next person.

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

yeah...it really is the indirect stuff that is hard.

Right now, I'm not interested in dating or sex with anyone new, which makes some parts easier and some parts harder. I mean, I don't have to worry that I'm going to blow something. But it presents its own challenges. And it is also true that if there is someone I might be interested in later, I want to preserve that option, or at least not torpedo it. At the same time, I think it can be a risky game to build a friendship with someone that you've acknowledged a desire to date...at least if the "what is a date" is too much of a slippery slope.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

it really is the indirect stuff that is hard.

Amen.

at least if the "what is a date" is too much of a slippery slope.

Oh, definitely. Getting that one wrong -- where "wrong" means you and the other person came up with different answers -- can be a tin-plated bitch.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Getting that one wrong -- where "wrong" means you and the other person came up with different answers -- can be a tin-plated bitch.

I've spent way too much time mopping up those messes.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

No kidding. Plus the messes about whether a date is to get to know you or whether it's to know you carnally. Very different things. I hate it when my answer doesn't match up with the other person's.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

I've been hit so hard in the head with that a couple of times, both upsetting someone when asked what kind of expectations went along with a date, and having people get upset with me because they thought my actions indicated dating interest when I was just being friendly. I can rarely spot an indirect flirt, I like verbal flirting in both directions -- and yet, I'm really bad at it.

That might be because I'm fairly conflicted about my own availability and desirability, though.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

having people get upset with me because they thought my actions indicated dating interest when I was just being friendly

Yeah, I used to get this all the @#$!ing time. It happens far less now. I think either I started hanging out with people who don't assume that the world is their wankfantasy, or else I've been scared outta being friendly entirely, or... something. Maybe it's just wearing the wedding band. That scares off the would-be property owners, anyway.

I too am fairly bad at verbal flirting. And when I feel physically safe enough, I'm way TOO good at physical flirting -- again giving a message I didn't (yet?) intend to give. Ah well. I sometimes have the feeling that everyone else figures this out in their teens!

[lcohen]

if it's reassuring at all, you still present as friendly.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yay, thank you! :-) I like "friendly".

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in real life I'm so incredibly slow about flirting and such that by the time I know whether I'm interested, I've figured out the other person's sexual orientation and some history and common interests and probably her shoe size as well. And by that time she's moved to Toronto or something.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

I like to know someone pretty damned well before we get to "real flirting," so I usually have all that info too. Whether they've moved to Toronto or not (how many times would you have to land for refueling, anyhow?) I'm generally frozen at that point. I'm 41 going on 14. I'm a basic lesbian sheep.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ditto on all of that. (Twice, I think - I'd have to ask rfrench, assuming you mean in his plane.)

[cyan-blue.livejournal.com]

*Sigh* Mine moved to Portland...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

This is a totally hypothetical example, so nobody I have in mind actually moved to Toronto or anything. I just made up Toronto. But I hear ya. :-(

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

Ooo, pinstripes! I'm thinking something very fitted and sexy -- Joan Crawford-esque. I think Lisa would look FABULOUS in pinstripes! :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Something like this, that says "Hey, I have lovely long legs and I'm perfectly okay with that"? :-)

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

Why yes, that's exactly what I meant! :)

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

And I do, thank you very much. ;)

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

Mental picture forming....meow!

:)

[layer.livejournal.com]

okay, yeah. signal would be good. i have more than once found myself dancing with some hot woman then feeling really bad about the whole "sorry i don't swing that way i just like to dance" thing that follows.

we straight girls are dumb sometimes.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I've done that same kind of dumb. All the little assumptions can bite ya in the butt sometimes. I may not be straight but there are other reasons I'm not about to build a relationship with, say, the cute redhead in the lesbian dance club in Boston.

Tattoos. We need forehead tattoos. Here's mine. "I live in California and am in a committed relationship with a man; I am also bi; I like to dance and I think you are hot. Any questions?" :-)

[genderfur.livejournal.com]

Now, see, here you're getting into the realm of those bumper stickers where the type is sooooo tiny that you have to get reeeeeeally close to read the witty phrase. And then, of course, you rear-end it.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

A gorgeous woman has to get reeeeeeeally close to read what's on my forehead... and then she bumps into me...

Oh *darn*!

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

And sometimes we bi girls aren't interested, but just like to dance. (I'm not aiming this at you, but alongside of you.)

"No thanks, I'm just here to dance" can be okay regardless of orientation.

[genderfur.livejournal.com]

we dykes can be, too, believe you me.

[firecat]

Noooo, not pinstripes! I just bought a great pinstripe suit!

What I really care about when I meet someone hot is not whether they are heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual but whether they might be firecatsexual.

I'm in the slow flirting school also, so I wait and gather clues, and tell myself I wouldn't want the complications of people who rush into relationships anyway.

The world would certainly be a different place if people had a little red light on their foreheads that automatically lit up when they looked at someone they found attractive.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

whether they might be firecatsexual

In all seriousness, yeah. And I certainly agree that the world would be different if we had those little red lights on our foreheads! Lots of implications would follow from that change, I think.

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

Yeah. For one thing, we wouldn't need streetlights. :)

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

Now wait just a ding-dong minute here. I love my pinstripes.

I would have, once upon a time, suggested nail polish, but here I am with white polish still apparent on my toesies.

And do remember, girlfriend, that speaking of ones boyfriend, or even husband, doesn't necessarily mean "straight" either.

I suggest an I (heart) George W. t-shirt. ;)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Now wait just a ding-dong minute here. I love my pinstripes.

Did you like redgrrl's suggestion of something Joan-Crawford-like? ;-)

And do remember, girlfriend, that speaking of ones boyfriend, or even husband, doesn't necessarily mean "straight" either.

Gee, how can I remind myself that there are bi women who are partnered with men? Maybe rfrench can remind me sometimes! Hah! No, I did put the "Plus it does not successfully signal not-bi" near the end there.

I suggest an I (heart) George W. t-shirt. ;)

What, after that pileup on abz6958 for suggesting that all married women are straight and all straight women are married, you're gonna start the same thing about Republicans? Don your asbestos undies, woman! ;-)

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

Wha-- there are queer Republicans? I don't believe it. ;)

Yeah, I'm hidden here at the bottom, no one will even see my little snark.

[katestine.livejournal.com]

Too late.

I'm a queer Republican. :)

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

Yes, but are you a fan of George W.?

[katestine.livejournal.com]

I can fake it :)

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

Did you like redgrrl's suggestion of something Joan-Crawford-like? ;-)


Just got there.

Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[cyan-blue.livejournal.com]

I'm shy with signalling my intention to women, in a way that I'm not with men.

I suspect it's because I anticipate that men are more likely to welcome a subtle non-verbal come-on than women are.

Re: Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

I'm completely the opposite. I'm exceedingly shy signalling with men ('cause most men I've met don't seem to need much prodding, so if there's going to be any slow about things, it's got to come from my end). I'm much more flirty with women.

Re: Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

As I just said to cyan_blue, I'm shy with BOTH -- men for the reason you state, women because I presume them uninterested. I may have missed some opportunities, but damn my life got simpler. :-)

Re: Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I think I agree with both you and lkeele below. I'm shy with women 'cause I presume they're straight or simply uninterested in me. (Plus I haven't dated that many women, so my confidence in my bedroom skills is lower there.) I'm shy with men 'cause they're sometimes way TOO interested. :-)

Re: Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[lcohen]

i know lots of women who are *dying* for a subtle non-verbal come-on from a comely lass. and they wait and wait in vain.

Re: Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[cyan-blue.livejournal.com]

*Grin* That's exactly the trouble... all of us bi/lesbian sheep here are waiting for each other to make the first move!

Re: Another bi-lesbian sheep, here...

[lcohen]

don't i know it!

i credit my willingness to actually ask women out for coffee for most of my dating history!

[tytso.livejournal.com]

This could be framed as an interesting crypto/information hiding problem.

There is a certain amount of information that you don't want to disclose publically to said interesting potential romantic/sexual partner (i.e., whether or not you are interested, whether you are gay/straight, whether you are poly, etc.) and the other potential romantic/sexual partner similarly isn't willing to disclose said informally for all of the world to see. However, if the answers to these questions would indicate that there might be a potential for then --- and only then --- should this both parties be notified about this fact.

It's probably possible to solve this using Realy Clever Mathematics, but it's a lot easier with trusted hardware. So consider what would happen if people could purchase devices (probably integrated into cell phones, eventually), where the device would send out an a message with an ID number to all other participating devices over bluetooth (assume that all protocol exchanges are encrypted so that only trusted devices that do not "cheat" can decrypt them). Each person who participates in this is registered with a central, secure server which associates with your ID number the following information: a low-res picture, whether you are gay/straight/bi, whether you are poly or not, whether you are interested in people who are gay/straight/bi/poly, etc. So when someone sees someone which interests them, they excuse themselves, and their device sends the ID numbers that it has received in the past 10 minutes to the central server, which sends back the low-res pictures. That person then selects the picture for which they are interested, and only if the other person also subsequently indicates an interest do both people simultaneously get notified on their cell phone, via an SMS message, that there is a match.

The operator of the server, of course, can also make a mint collecting material suitable for blackmail, unless the privacy provisions prohibit it, which would be no fun. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

This could be framed as an interesting crypto/information hiding problem.

Yeah. This and all subparts: my interest in you could be disclosed only if you are also interested in me, my queerness could be disclosed only if you are not Fred Phelps, etc.

It's probably possible to solve this using Realy Clever Mathematics, but it's a lot easier with trusted hardware.

Ain't that the truth! :-)

So when someone sees someone which interests them, they excuse themselves...

I saw a writeup somewhere that went "When I'm interested I get near the other person (near that person's device, more accurately) and push a button. If they've pushed theirs too, my device lights up or buzzes or something." Keeps a lot less data, though, so you still have to figure out the poly thing and somehow determine exactly *which* button-push lit up your life.

and only if the other person also subsequently indicates an interest do both people simultaneously get notified on their cell phone, via an SMS message, that there is a match.

And a generation later, anyone hearing that SMS feep ... __ ... instantly thinks of sex. ;-)

Isn't it amazing the lengths we'll go to to avoid talking to each other?

[oddhack.livejournal.com]

They already have the beginnings (http://www.dailycal.org/particle.php?id=1986) of this idea.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

That's the one I was thinking of! Although I thought it lit up, rather than beeped.

I like the author's idea of personalized settings. I will set mine for ... um... this could get long-winded. :-)