I ask you

[cjsmith]

I hate asking people for things beyond the basic “hey could you hand me that” kind of thing. I knew this. I’m reminded it’s still true. I’m almost pathologically … no. I am absolutely, pathologically resistant to asking anyone to change a behavior in order to make my life easier or happier.

It has come to my attention that this can actually damage relationships.

Sigh.

Comments

[noelfigart]

*sits beside you*

[cjsmith]

Thank you. ♥

[siliconshaman]

Yeah... me too.

On top of that I also have trouble saying no when someone asks for my help. I'm getting better, but it's hard.

[cjsmith]

Ohhhhhh, yes. These are both so tough! (I suspect some of the unwritten rules you were raised with may be similar to those I was raised with...)

[batrachian]

( * ) I'm in this picture and I don't like it.

[cjsmith]

nodnod. c'mon over and sit by me. ♥

[batrachian]

(But if you never ask, there's no chance to be categorically rejected and shamed for daring to want THAT how could you)

(It's been a very long week, j/s)

[cjsmith]

omg yes. Just below your reply is labelleizzy's, which prompted me to reflect on how much trust is required in order to be able to ask. My unwillingness to ask things is not a "me problem" but an "us problem". (Plus, of course, trauma response. Naturally.)

[batrachian]

Trauma response everywhere, especially with the things I've ended up in currently. When the answer has been no in the past, and boundaries are a GOOD THING but in the end I'm still bleeding (metaphorically).

(Not comfortable sharing details here; ping me on PM if you want to hear more.)

[cjsmith]

Owwwwwww. That sounds bad. My heart hurts for you. :( :(

PM 100% welcome. *gentle hugs offered*

[labelleizzy]

Ohhhhhhhhhh yeah. J and I've been together 18 years and asking for Certain things I needed has been hard for a long time.

I had to start small and build trust. We both did. I had to try and change the things that bothered him, and I had to make a conscious effort to use my WORDS.

Because apparently I still had some of that "if he LOVES ME he would just KNOW" bullshit script remaining... ARGH

and now I use my words more, and we're both having a better time with things .

[cjsmith]

Building trust is such a key piece. There are a lot of facets to that, too:

• I need to trust that the other person gives a shit, which is NOT a given;
• I need to trust that the other person is willing to say no when that's what they need to say, which is ABSOLUTELY NOT A GIVEN;
• and I need to trust that when they care and I need something and they need to say no, we'll work at it until we find an alternate path or something that is going to do well for both (all?) of us.

So... okay. Not asking may damage the relationship, but now that I've thought about it even a minuscule amount, the lack of trust shows that me being reticent to make a request is not "my problem" in isolation.

(Which is also sort of discouraging, because I'm the only person I can change.)

[labelleizzy]

Yes. Those three factors are HUGE. And trust is at the base of all of them.

*Hugs*

[cjsmith]

*fierce hugs back*

I do have, intellectually if not in my gut where it counts, evidence that the other person gives a shit. (The fact I don't "trust it in my gut" is probably a trauma response. Technically that's a me problem, but since it won't go away quickly, it becomes an us problem, a thing we both work with and respond to.) At least I've got this knowledge in my logic-brain. This is superb.

In addition, I'm pretty sure I can and will at least keep trying with working at something until we find an alternate solution. I have a relationship that has lasted three decades and change; we've done a lot of creative solution finding in that time, so I know I'm capable of that. This is a good thing to know about myself and I'm kind of proud of it. Like, even if that relationship were to dissolve tomorrow, I know what I'm like in that kind of long term situation, and I have some traits there that I think are cool and nifty.

So now I need to work on the saying no piece of trust.

Hmm. This has been very helpful. Thank you. ♥

[zahraa]

It is a thing to be proud of, three decades!

Trust really is key to everything, and, geez, it's hard.

[cjsmith]

Heh! Three decades where we had the choice to leave and didn’t, three decades where we are treating each other well instead of devolving into bitterness and contempt - yeah, I’ll take it. That’s a good thing. Thank you!

While the character traits and self-knowledge may be more widely applicable, though, the specific skills probably are not. I wonder if there’s a way to work on building up trust.

[labelleizzy]

One of the writers I follow here, ysabetwordsmith, writes stories about characters building and teaching practical emotional skills as well as physical skills. You might enjoy them.

[cjsmith]

Ooo, that’s a name I remember from LJ. Thank you!

[zahraa]

Yeah, three decades of all of those things, wow! Take some pride in it.

I believe that our brains are more malleable than we think, so I think there should be skill-building for trust.

[cjsmith]

I agree wholeheartedly on brains being more malleable than most give them credit for.

I suspect working on trust looks very different if it’s one person working on trust issues in general versus if it’s two people working on one person’s specific, situational lack of trust. I shall noodle on that.

[cjsmith]

also: Very glad you're both having a better time with things! That's huge. *hugs*

Drat this panini anyway. Would love to do a hang-out-and-catch-up some time.

[minoanmiss]

Yeah. *sighs and hugs you gently*

[cjsmith]

*hugs back*

labelleizzy's reply just above yours, and my response to that, make me realize how much there is to this. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

[zipperbear]

I can see how that could be a problem. Alas, here on the other side of the aisle, I have to share a sad fact: Even if you ask, it's often really hard for people to change their habits. Even if they care about you, and even if they are willing to try to change, it may take a lot of reminding. (Example: I do the laundry, but my fingers don't like buttons. Recently, my husband's polo shirts haven't had all the buttons undone. I'm not sure how he gets them over his head, but they don't fit onto the hangers with the buttons fastened. He's always apologetic when I mention it, but I think maybe he's too old of a dog to learn new tricks now.)

If you can't ask for changes, can you at least mention the impact on you? Or discuss the behavior in the abstract? It seems like that might be easier, or at least a step in the right direction.

I'm currently working on "Yes, And..." (explicitly agreeing with statements before going off on tangents or bring up exceptions, which comes off as dismissive) -- it's really hard to change a behavior, but I'm getting faster at recognizing when I've slipped up, sometimes halfway into my first sentence!

[cjsmith]

Oh, this definitely comes into play. It is difficult to change habits. So after asking, there's the next phase: continuing to try, seeing if other workarounds are available, mentioning the impact, treating each other with compassion. Basically, open communication. Which is more difficult than I want it to be, waaaaaaaaaaaah!! (stamps foot)

[amaebi]

*offers hugs*

[cjsmith]

Thank you. Gratefully accepted. ♥

[zahraa]

Augh. That is super difficult. I'm sorry.

[cjsmith]

Thanks. It’s not going to get better until trust improves (see the labelleizzy thread) so I/we may just have to accept the ill effects. Which is sad.

Time to dust off the Buddhist philosophy.