LJ Brain Trust: Vacuum sealer?

[cjsmith]

If I did get more freezer space, and maybe even if I can't, I wonder whether I should have a vacuum sealer.

I am short on counter space, but I can work that out.

I probably don't want one if it doesn't save money in the long run. I can squeeze a lot of air out of Ziploc bags and store them in odd-shaped spots in the freezer, so this will hinge on how much waste I'm likely to have, from freezer burn or the like, after the squeezy treatment. Ziploc cost + freezer burn cost - vacuum sealer bag cost - amortized cost of the unit: if it's not a positive number in under a decade I'm not going there. But it's OK if it takes a while to go positive, because I also hate waste.

I also don't want it if it's inconvenient to use. (It's very telling that I don't have "good" knives. They're more work than bad ones.)

I do want it if it will significantly save money, food, and/or freezer and fridge space. For example, if the bags are sturdy enough that I can pour from the skillet right into the bag, then I don't need so much Tupperware-style stuff. That would be a serious win in terms of space.

[LJ-CUT TEXT="Poll time!"]

[Poll #1217861]

Comments

[evilegg.livejournal.com]

My polls about giant clits are way more fun.

[tiger-spot.livejournal.com]

Good knives are infinitesimally more work to wash, sure, but they make chopping so much easier. Promise.

[tiger-spot.livejournal.com]

(Though you've probably heard that a lot, so feel free to ignore.)

[erisian-fields.livejournal.com]

The $300+ we spent on knives (sharpener, block, large chefs knife, paring knife, bread knife, and boning knife) almost 5 years ago is a purchase I have never once regretted. We got Wusthof (http://www.wusthof.com/en/classic-knife-collections.asp) brand knives. They're not hard to care for (they can go in the dishwasher) (http://www.wusthof.com/en/cleaning-and-storage.asp) and when they need sharpened, a few swipes across the sharpener gets them ready to go cleanly through the softest tomato. I love these things.

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

I've never known anyone who had one of the vacuum sealers to use them regularly. I think that it has the potential to be a useful tool, but it wouldn't be for me.

Did you know that there are now (relatively) small free-standing freezers? I'm talking roughly 3 feet tall, by 1.5x1.5'
They seem pretty efficiently laid out.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

And then steel them every time they're used, and sharpen periodically? Maaaaan, I can just BUY a crappy knife in a lot less time. ;-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

There's a spot we could put a free-standing freezer if we didn't need to open its door. (Corner of garage, concrete steps up into house in the way.) A chest freezer might fit if it were small enough, because those upen open upward. I need to go measure just how small a chest freezer would have to be.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right, they are. I need brain bleach for that much fun.

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

I have seen a very small chest freezer at Fry's. It opens from the top. That was about 6-8 months ago. It was at the Fry's on Scott in Sunnyvale.

[nosrednayduj]

Do you have space in your garage? We used to have a freezer in the garage, which wasn't hugely inconvenient. Heck, stick it out in the backyard -- you don't have any weather out there ;-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Garage would be perfect, although space there is tight. The garage holds two cars and also serves as our entire basement. There's one spot in a corner where a water heater used to be, and we could put a freezer there as long as we never needed to open its door. The question is whether that space is large enough for a chest freezer, and if a chest freezer goes there, will that freezer be large enough to make a difference.

Our back yard is under water. :-) We'd love to get rid of the pool, particularly as house value goes *up* if there's any yard that isn't pool, but that's $15K we don't particularly feel like spending.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Rob is looking on line and says Sears is having a sale through tomorrow. Now for the tape measure.

[dizzdvl.livejournal.com]

You don't want to pour into a bag directly after cooking. Let it cool down a bit before doing this. I have bags of chili in the freezer for a day I am just too damn lazy to cook. And no you won't die from letting food sit out a bit.

And they have wonderful things like a bag of chicken tenderloins in the freezer section that you can just take out a tenderloin or two and just cook them. And I always cook for myself and I rarely have more than one serving as a leftover. Are you able to cut your recipes down?

[ambar.livejournal.com]

Steeling takes all of 10 seconds. I honestly think you're building more mountain than warranted, here.

[ambar.livejournal.com]

elflet has a vacuum sealer and uses it -- more often to package food for others than for our household, since we suffer from a chronic lack of freezer space. You'd have to ask him about brands, etc.

[brooksmoses]

Huh, okay. I bet if those are dishwasher-safe, then the Tramontina ones I recommended (and have) also are. There's nothing obvious on them that would be hurt by the dishwasher, but I'd always heard "it will dull them" for good knives.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's probably just stuff I'm not used to doing. I've been doing what either you or klwalton suggested (I forget who), and keeping a soapy sponge handy to use on knives right after I've chopped with them. It really doesn't take much time, and it works pretty well except when I've sliced up some salt pork and gotten gunk deep into the corners between the blade and the handle. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I've started to convert to hand-washing knives immediately after use, but for cases where one really wants a deeper cleaning, I'll put one in its own little section of the dishwasher silverware unit. I have no idea whether this really helps. Maybe my knives can't get a whole lot duller. ;-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was afraid of that -- I don't want to pour directly into a Ziploc from the skillet, either. Problem is if I'm cooking a bunch of things in a row I want the skillet again right away. Ah well.

Some recipes I can cut down, though of course if I'm trying to cook for a week in a couple of hours I'll probably go ahead and make a biggish batch.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

*nod* I was hoping to hear from people who really used 'em, particularly about whether they think I should have one. So far, abz6598 thinks no, and his opinion carries a lot of weight with me, 'cause he knows from vacuum sealers and food storage. I suppose that makes my life easier: fewer things to buy and take care of! :-)

[samtosha.livejournal.com]

We had one of the earlier Tilla ones and it was a worthless piece of crap. The actual vacuum part worked well, maybe too well. My experience was that if you have a food that has any moisture in it whatsoever, like maybe the juice in a cooked chicken breasts, the liquid would be vacuumed out to the top and interfere with the sealing process. So, I could not vacuum seal soup, or chili or even cooked chicken breasts because the liquid would interfere with the sealing process. Eventually, I just quit using the thing because it was too frustrating a process. Just my .03.

[ashiegrrrl.livejournal.com]

I had a FoodSaver one and loved it. Didn't bother fighting for it in the divorce because of the already huge number of appliances I have. My Mom has a Reynolds hand unit that is inexpensive, small, and does the trick. She loves it. If I were to get another one that's the one I'd probably get. My kitchen has negative counter and cupboard space!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. I guess soup or chili might go in one of the cans instead of the bags, but chicken breasts? Yeesh, that's good to know.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Awesome - thanks for the info! I'm probably not going to do this right away, as the squeezy trick works pretty well for now, but with a chest freezer I will keep it in mind.

[elflet.livejournal.com]

You can steel the blade every few uses and it'll work just as well. As for time and effort: cutting with a good, sharp blade is a whole lot faster and safer than using a dull blade!

(OK, )

Probably the only annoying thing is I don't throw my knives in the dishwasher anymore, but the soapy sponge trick works just fine.

[elflet.livejournal.com]

I'm using a FoodSaver bought at Costco and I'm pretty happy with it. We don't use it for packing up one or two portions of leftovers (Tupperware handles that), but when cooking up stock or making larger batches of something special. They're great for longer-term storage or keeping a selection of goodies on-hand in the freezer.

(Long-term = up to a year.)

I think the big win for you is you could make a giant batch of sawdust bars (tm) and seal them in smaller packets that will stack nicely.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ooo, good point, sawdust bars. And the more batches of different stuff I have in the chest freezer, the more variety I have to eat during times it's awkward to cook much.

If you vacuum-seal a chunk of meat, a pound of ground beef say, and pop it in a chest freezer, how long does that last?

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I don't even *have* a steel. Bad me. Seriously, I grew up owning one, and I know I had one when I first struck out on my own, but I haven't the foggiest what happened to it. I haven't seen it for easily a decade.

Saying stuff like that makes me feel old!

[elflet.livejournal.com]

Of course, havig posted that, I had my first knife accident in several years tonight. Managed to take out part of a fingernail and a thin slice of skin while yelling for the teenager to finish setting the table. (Man, that santoku is sharp!) Now I'm typing mostly one-handed (and not for the "fun" reason!)

P.S. re food sealers: Would you like to borrow mine for a couple of weeks and see if it works for you?

[elflet.livejournal.com]

Up to a year, in general. I've seen some freezer burn in meat that's been vacuum sealed, but only in the frost-free freezer (per the defrosting cycle) and this is easily fixed by putting the meat under somethign else that buffers the temperature swings.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Excellent info! Thank you. (We're getting a manual-defrost.)

Just out of curiosity, if you put meat in a Ziploc and did the squeezy bit by hand, and tossed it in the chest freezer, how long do you think it would last? I'm guessing what would get it would be freezer burn...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ouch!!

An aside: I've heard many times the old phrase that you'll cut yourself more readily on a dull knife than on a sharp one, because you have to push harder with the dull one. But the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that in either case -- sharp knife or dull -- you're pushing "hard enough to cut", whatever that takes. Now I don't know WHAT to think.

I think it would be awesome to borrow yours for a little while, less than a couple of weeks if you like because I don't want to take it away from you! The chest freezer doesn't arrive until the 14th, because the one with the drain hose adapter is out of stock in a bunch of places, so would some time after that be good? I really don't want to take advantage, so I'm happy to return it quickly. All I'd need to get a bunch of stuff sealed is a Sunday. :-)

[elflet.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the freezer-burn case. :(

[elflet.livejournal.com]

The reason you cut yourself more readily with a dull knife is 1) more force, and 2) dull knives are more likely to slip.

Basically, I cut myself because I wasn't paying attention and wasn't following my usual knife handling protocol (fingers tucked under, knuckles against the blade to guide it.) Try this: make a fist with your left hand and set it down with your fingers touching the table. See your pointer finger pointing back at you under your thumb? That's what I was doing, with my pointer finger out a little way from my thumb and slightly rolled, holding down some basil I was cutting. I cut straight down on the outer edge (a thin chord across the outside of the finger and taking out part of the nail. It could have been far worse!

If you worry with sharp knives, you could also get one of the gut-proof gloves (with steel mesh woven in.) I often use one when doing something risky.

re: the food sealer, anytime that works for you would be fine. If you want to take part of a Sunday, I can come over and we can seal up a bunch of stuff.

[elflet.livejournal.com]

If you have metal bowls, you can throw some ice and a little water in a big bowl, stick a smaller bowl in the middle, and pour your hot food in the small bowl. It's a common trick for cooling things fast. (I use it when making ice cream in a hurry -- I need to take a very hot custard and cool it to around 40 before loading the ice cream freezer.)

[elflet.livejournal.com]

Given the history of tri-tip we get in ziplocks (with the air squeezed out by hand), MTFB* is around 6 weeks.

* Mean Time to Freezer Burn

[dizzdvl.livejournal.com]

Get some of the ziploc containers. You can put hot food in them right out of the skillet. They rock!

Oh, and buy another damn skillet!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

The two big desires for a storage container are 1) hot food out of the skillet, 2) squishability. I've got either one. I'd love to find both. :-)

I did buy another skillet. :-) One day a week, I've got them both running. :-) Now I need (sigh) two spatulas.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ahhhh. OK. 6 weeks versus a year. So if I get a chest freezer and routinely eat everything in it every six weeks, I don't much need a vacuum sealer, but if stuff doesn't fully turn over that fast, I'll want one. That's a great rule of thumb.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ahh: item 2 makes sense even with my "you're always pushing as hard as you need to" concept.

I'm not sure I'm visualizing the lines correctly, but then, I don't know how to use knuckles to guide a blade, so that may be the baseline I'm missing. Sounds like you took a sliver nearly parallel to the finger bones. That sounds *massively* painful where it hits the nail bed, at the very least!

Part of a Sunday would be awesome. I can probably also return ambar's cookbooks to you then. She's very graciously lent them to me for "a few weeks" and probably would like them back eventually!

[dizzdvl.livejournal.com]

No you don't, just rinse off the spatula or not. I use mine for more than one dish. Cooking needs to be relaxed and no stress. Less Alton Brown perfection and more Giada DeLaurentis relaxed and enjoyed.

Oh, and I have 2 cash iron skillets and at least 2-3 teflon ones. The nice thing about cast iron is that you just rinse it out. No washing!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I like to have two for the times that one skillet has almost-raw meat in it and the other's nearly done. Right now the problem is that I have zero. Definitely definitely need to find one I like, and buy a few of it.

A very quick intro to knives

[elflet.livejournal.com]

Most of what you need to know about knives in just over a minute:

http://startcooking.com/video/328/Three-Good-Kitchen-Knives

[layer.livejournal.com]

i keep thinking about vacuum sealers for myself but just can't get past the idea of melting plastic so close to my food...

try walmart.com for small chest freezers like this one:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1819476

they have a ton of different sizes. :)