Veterinary thoughts

[cjsmith]

Thoughts, mostly for myself, but feel free to read 'em if you feel like it.

Difficulty

I have now heard from multiple sources that getting into a veterinary medicine program is harder than getting into (human-) med school. I don't know whether it "needs to be" harder in order to screen for the difficulty of the schooling itself, but there are certainly fewer schools available and fewer seats available. Yikes. I honestly am not sure I'm up for that level of challenge. Hell, I thought a lot of myself when I was coming out of high school and I was intimidated by it back then!

O'course, multiple sources could still be wrong. And it's possible that my utterly appalling undergraduate grades would mean a lot less now than they would have meant in 1989. I will work like crazy to kick some serious butt on the entrance exams (GRE, MCAT, whatever, I'll do what needs doing) and I will work like crazy to get good grades in the preparatory undergraduate courses I know I need.

I suspect once I'm in I'll be okay. I may not graduate top in my class; I'm not twenty, I'm not perfectly healthy, I've already pulled all the all-nighters I want to pull in this lifetime, I may have a significant commute to and from school, and I don't have somebody else footing the bill. But I won't be last in my class either. If I get in, I believe I can become a good AND competent veterinarian. I'm also ethical enough that if I can't become competent I'll stop. But that first step is a doozy.

Squeamishness

Long-time readers, remember that bit about passing out when giving blood? That bit about feeling woozy when my doctor described the laparoscopic surgery I was going to get? That bit about having to go lie down when watching my cat get subcutaneous fluids? Um. As an employee evaluation might put it, "this area needs work."

On the other hand, many people have assured me that this is the kind of thing that can be overcome. My gynecologist, who is also a surgeon, assures me he used to get woozy. My aunt Helen, a registered nurse, passed out cold at the first surgery she attended. (Hit her head hard if I remember the story right. Nobody was watching the students; they were quite rightly watching the surgeon and his patient.) These people went on to have long and fine careers in medicine. It can be done.

On the other other hand I don't exactly look forward to it.

Commitment

When people ask me about my desire to do this, the best answer I can give them is that it's obvious this is what I should have done the first time around.

Perhaps that means I owe it to myself to try. BUT.

Rob and I, as a couple, come first.

I can't guarantee I'll get into any of my top few choices of schools. ANY school I attend will mean selling the house, moving, Rob drastically changing or even dumping his flight instructor career and improvising some way he can make money in aviation or out of it, and years of me pulling eighty-hour weeks and stressing out a lot. He's said he'll be supportive of whichever decision I make, but I must also in good conscience take a look at what that will cost him. If it costs us each other, directly or indirectly, that's too high a price. If managed badly, I know that that could indeed be the price. Caution required.

I also won't be able to keep going with the high-tech career for very much longer if I head down this path. A year, sure; I'll be studying, taking a class or two, volunteering. More than two years... very unlikely. I'll be in classes AND studying for the entrance exams AND working at a clinic (if I can) AND trying to figure out in which state I'll need to establish residency, and maybe even going there while Rob sells the house. So my current career will get ditched early in the process, long before I know I'll succeed on the new path. It could get picked up again, although re-buying the house (if already sold) would be a bit of a toughie.

It all kind of feels like a leap off a cliff.

On the other hand, damn if it isn't exciting. Rob, I'm sorry, I really am.

*sigh*

So far I'm giving it somewhere around a 35% chance I'll make the leap. That's probably higher than it's been before.

Comments

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

Life is short, and full of regrets. I know you're giving every aspect its due consideration. I'm over here, sort of handwaving, hoping that whatever conclusion you come to, it'll be right for you, and for you and Rob. And as your friend, I'm ready to support whatever decision you make (for what that's worth :)).

My two cents? I've jumped off a couple of cliffs, and never regretted it. I've also learned to let go of whatever regrets I have, and that's helped.

And that's not necessarily helpful, but it's all I've got.

That, and "Go *you*!!!"

:)

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

I have some thoughts on all this that might be easier to express one-on-one. Talk to me sometime. :-)

I will say at least that I agree with this sentiment, but it's not necessarily bad: It all kind of feels like a leap off a cliff.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks! One other answer I give when people ask how much I want to do this is that if it weren't for Rob, the decision would already be made. I'd be trying for it. (Not that I'd necessarily finish the process. But it'd be easier to give it a go, knowing that I might possibly bail out, if all I were messing with would be me.) One big hard part, though, is that when you've got more to lose, a cliff jump requires more thought. :)

Thanks for the handwaving, and the support, and... yeah. That. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Over the next few months, and few years if I go for it, I will probably be talking to you until you are mighty tired of me. :-) Thanks.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

Have you thought about volunteering at one of the local SPCAs to get more of a feel for what vets (or at least vet assistants) go through?

Just a thought.

[takhisis.livejournal.com]

My impression is that it's terribly hard to get in, but then I was applying at one of the premier vet schools in the country (U.C. Davis). I ended up not choosin that as a major due to squeamishness factor, so I understand that. BUT! One thing that was told to me that is kind of sneaky that I have remembered since then... depending on the school, they often have a cap on people entering as a particular major but then once you are in for any reason, you only have class caps to content with. Meanin, if you apply as Undeclared or as an alternate major (say, English or Computer Science), you can spend your first semester/trimester getting general requirements out of the way (classes you'd have to take no matter what your major was) and then you can usually transfer over into the Vet Med program without most of the hassle you'd have in applying as an undergrad, since you are already accepted as a student of the university. Then you only have to contend with fighting to get one of the limited class spots when you register.

This was also as cominin as a frosh, so I don't know if it would apply to coming in as a transfer student or a grad student, depending on what you've already done.

[ashiegrrrl.livejournal.com]

Good luck with whatever you decide!

*hugs*

You'll be great with whatever you do.

If it costs us each other, directly or indirectly, that's too high a price.
I made a choice to make sure I didn't lose Beloved. I left school and moved. Was it the right choice? I don't know. Maybe we could have made a LDR work for 2-3 years while I finished school. I didn't think I could do it. It took me 2 years puttering around being unhappy in school to change schools and get back on track with a similar program I was in. I'm rambling, I guess in short I mean that I understand, lol.

[lrc.livejournal.com]

Vet Med is a graduate program. You don't transfer in from an undergrad program.

I started out my college career pre-vet at UCD. I realized that I didn't want to live in Davis for 8 years, nor did I want to work as hard as getting into vet school would require.


CJ, do you know farmount? She did vet med at Davis.

Davis does have the advantages of an airport nearby, and I assume that housing is still cheap in the surrounding towns.

[takhisis.livejournal.com]

Well, I was trying to say that I didn't know if she was looking to go in as Vet Med or pre-vet, since she said "I will work like crazy to get good grades in the preparatory undergraduate courses I know I need." I didn't do grad school there so I can't offer any useful advice in that arena, just trying to put forth a caveat.

[ladyqkat.livejournal.com]

There was a young lady I met in alt.callahans who finally fulfilled her dream of becoming a vet. A lot of hard work, a lot of time in intense study and a very happy lass now. If you can check out ladysprite and maybe she can give you some pointers. I think a couple of your other friends know her as well.

Good luck whatever you decide. For my part I have only had regrets over things I didn't try.

[jcgbigler.livejournal.com]

If you & Rob found the house you're in now, there's no reason you won't be able to find another one when you need to. And this time around, you've got more life experience, more money in the bank, and a lot more perspective.

A parable I invented years ago when I had another friend in a similar situation tells of two men walking down an unfamiliar path. They come to a fork, and neither one knows which way to go. One of them stops at the fork to gather data, trying to figure out which way to go. He analyzes the footprints, wind direction, flora and fauna, and after four hours, he thinks one direction looks more favorable than the other.

Meanwhile, the second man shrugs his shoulders, picks one of the paths, and starts walking. After two hours, it's clear that he has gone the wrong way, so he turns around and walks back to the fork.

At the end of the four hours, both men are once again at the fork. Only one of them knows for certain which way is right--the one who chose incorrectly the first time.

So jump off that cliff! It's the only way to be sure.

[evilegg.livejournal.com]

Good link for questions they ask durinf vet college interviews:
http://grove.ufl.edu/~prevet/interviews.htm


Pre-professional Requirements for Admission to the College of Veterinary Medicine.*

A. Biology -- a minimum of 15 semester credits including two semesters of Animal Biology or Zoology (lecture and laboratory), 1 semester of Genetics, and one semester of Microbiology (lecture and laboratory).
B. Chemistry -- a minimum of 19 semester credits including two semesters of Inorganic Chemistry (general and qualitative), (lecture and laboratory), 2 semesters of Organic Chemistry (lecture and laboratory), and 1 semester of Biochemistry.
C. Physics -- a minimum of 8 semester credits including 2 semesters of lecture and laboratory.
D. Mathematics -- a minimum of 6 semester credits. One semester of Calculus and 1 semester of Statistics.
E. Animal Science -- a minimum of 6 semester credits. One semester of Introduction to Animal Science and 1 semester of Animal Nutrition.
F. Humanities -- a minimum of 9 semester credits.
G. Social Science -- a minimum of 6 semester credits.
H. English -- a minimum of 6 semester credits, including two semesters of English Composition.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vet School is INSANE. We had LOTS of vet school friends in Gainesville. We saw them about every six weeks during the school year.
The only way to get through it is to really believe that there is nothing else on earth you can be happy doing, because after you have your arm shoved up a cow's ass, reek of pig piss, and still have to go to the lab to study xrays all night, you better be having the time of your life.

[msmichelle.livejournal.com]

I agree with the mentioned suggestion to volunteer at a shelter, humane society...something to not only "get your feet wet" but also show your deeper interest on a grad school app.
I have heard the coursework is a bit more involved than med school, only because your studying bovine, feline, canine, etc., etc.
I think it's hard to get in. My old apartment manager applied and got in. During the "waiting to hear" stage, he was very tense about what he said was the lack of spots (back in 1999 at UW-Madison)...he even made some comment about how he perceived it to be tougher for him because he does not fit any gender or racial equity thing...I think he was just complaining/nervous though.
What I did see in the paper a few weeks back, is that large animal vets are in demand. I am not sure if that's the way you want to go with a vet career? Maybe a sub speciality? I didn't read the full article or really know much beyond the need part (eg: does that specialty have more openings in vet school? unsure).

At any rate, I think your life experience, military experience, work experience, etc. etc. bodes well for your application! My friend just decided to get another Master's & dropped his work hours to 20/week. I'm not sure if any phase of vet school allows for that, (he's just doing a one year programming masters, and already has a comp sci masters so he's not doing anything nearly as grueling) but maybe a paid internship or something could supplement?

If I ever pursued a master's, I'd definitely want to be in a position to afford it, so I hear you there.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[cassidyrose.livejournal.com]

I can only speak to the squeamishness part. My sister has worked as a vet tech and a zoo keeper. Her first day interning as a zoo keeper she was asked "Are you squeamish?" and she said, tentatively, "Um, no" wanting to make a good impression. She was then handed a frozen rabbit and a pair of scissors and was told to cut it in half for the snakes. Yeah, ick. However, that was pretty minor compared to all the stuff she has seen and done over the years. All I can say is that I don't think she inherently was un-squeamish, she just got used to her profession and what came with it and dealt with it. Zoo keepers are one the least squeamish bunches of people I have ever met. Be wary when they offer to show you their pictures. Who knew people photographed animal surgeries? ::shudder::

Also, ptor is someone who passed out more than once while having blood drawn, but somehow was able to work as a surgical orderly and watched a good chunk of my c-section (what he could see from the head of the table, around all the medical staff). Again, I think we just adjust to our circumstances.

I wish you the best in whatever you decide. It sounds very exciting and it is wonderful to hear you talk about the possibilities.

[rfrench.livejournal.com]

I don't think getting into pre-vet is going to be the problem. That can be done anywhere, and is just basic biology and chemistry stuff. It's the graduate portion that's hard, and there isn't any easy way around it as far as I know.

[rfrench.livejournal.com]

It's certainly possible to sell the house and then come back and buy a new one, but it has two major disadvantges: 1) you lose a lot of money selling a house in commissions and repairs and whatnot and don't get that back and 2) The way California property tax works you get a big hit when you buy a new house. I would find it hard to believe we would decide to come back to the Bay Area and buy a new house after having lived elsewhere. The cost difference is just too huge.

[platypus]

Unfortunately, yeah. UW-Madison didn't even recognize 'pre-vet' as a classification; you could take relevant coursework, but you had to be majoring in something they did recognize (most people chose "meat and animal science" for the overlap in useful courses). And attendance at the university got you absolutely no ins when it came to grad school admission.

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

I think you are very brave to pursue this - I once thought of being a vet but a visit to Cornell's vet school and seeing a surgery ended that (I was maybe about 12 at the time).

Would your feet work for such a career - there'd probably be a lot of lifting and standing?

Would a vet tech job be an alternative with less studying?

Just some thoughts...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yes indeed; I've not only thought about it, but it will be mandatory. (Either at an animal shelter, a veterinary clinic, or both.) That's a good chunk of the time that will go into preparing me to apply to vet school.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I hear you. It's a toughie. *hugsback*

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link and the info! Aw dangit, I forgot genetics. I'll have to snag a semester of that as well.

A lot of this I have, a few are things I don't have but will vary from school to school (Colorado doesn't require Animal Nutrition for example), and the rest I'll have to get. I figure it'll be two years of course work.

Definitely insane. The two veterinarians (ok, one still a student) I've exchanged e-mail with so far have given me an overview of approximately how insane. I never thought I'd be grateful for having worked at startups, but I am now, because at least I know I can pull eighty-hour weeks for months if I have to.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Well... the second man can come back. That's the bother about cliffs. We'll never come back to the Bay Area (although I might come back to high tech) if I jump.

I have, best I can tell, about another nine months to make up my mind. Then I'd better be doing course work and starting with the volunteering.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I think someone else mentioned her as well. I should go introduce myself.

I too have had regrets over things I didn't try. I guess the worst that can happen is I try and don't make it -- and that, much as I won't like it, is something I can live through.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I do have the good fortune of already having an undergraduate degree, so I probably don't need to apply to a degree program at all in order to spackle the holes in my undergrad bio and chem background. But getting in somewhere, anywhere, as vet med... if I fail at becoming a vet that'll be exactly where it will happen.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely - I should make clear that shelter / humane society / veterinary clinic work is required for application to all vet schools I have looked at so far. They're no dummies. :-)

There's definitely a lot more breadth in the course work. On the other hand, there's less depth. We don't prolong life or fight the nearly-unbeatable in animals like we do in humans; we don't study kitty Alzheimer's or what a horse's lungs look like if he's smoked all his life; that sort of thing. On the other other hand, finding a vein in a rat has got to be a really finicky thing to learn...

Eh. Worst I can do is not get in.