Becoming a veterinarian?

[cjsmith]

"Veterinarian" is one of those "maybe-somedays" I've had in the back of my head for a long time -- probably ever since I've considered changing careers out of high tech, and that's been well over a decade.

It will take an awful lot of work to get there. Students admitted to the veterinary medicine program in Fort Collins have at least 1000 hours of working with animals in a veterinary setting and at least 1000 more hours of working with animals in some other setting (humane society, perhaps?). That adds up to a full-time year of work right there. They've got excellent foundations in chemistry and biology; I'd probably be looking at two years to beef up my science background (and not so incidentally my GPA). Then the vet program itself is four years and not exactly a cakewalk.

It's now or never. The oldest student ever admitted there was 45. If we don't move from here for at least a year I'll be a minimum of 44 when I attempt to apply. Admission to these programs is very competitive and schools would be completely reasonable to want to give the slot to someone who will likely be in practice for longer. In fact, after those three years of prep, it's quite possible I won't get admitted at all, and I don't have years to re-apply.

Am I trading one high-stress job for another? At least for the first seven years, probably I am. The academic workload will be a lot of buckling down and not much time to relax or goof off. Is it worth that much time spent, now that I'm middle-aged and a little spoiled? What about afterward? How stressful IS the job? Will I be able to go home and forget, or will I pour too much of my heart into it? Will I constantly want to stay late because it might make the difference for THIS one? Will there always be another THIS one?

Could I handle all of it emotionally? Would it rip me up to perform euthanasia when the options are running out? (Actually, probably not; I'd dislike it, but I've been there with my own and I do believe in quality of life.) How often will I face giving only the care a family can afford to an animal they honestly don't have the money to keep healthy?

Would I just start to hate neglectful pet owners? Just as some teachers will say the worst thing about their job is the parents, some veterinarians out there must be saying the worst thing about the job is the owners. Can I patch up some dog or cat One More Time and let him go home with the family that will only let him get hurt again or eat chocolate again? Would it rip me up to perform euthanasia when the family just doesn't feel like keeping the pet any more? Can I, God forgive me, do a declawing operation -- even the one I'd maybe need to do in my third year in surgery class just so I'd seen one?

Am I doing it for the right reasons? The first thing that always, always, always comes to mind is the number of animals at shelters who can't get good care because it's costly. I could volunteer for low-cost spay and neuter programs. I could work with animals the shelter feels could be adoptable with just a little bit of medical attention. These are great motives. (But, tellingly, I haven't been down there to volunteer in years. I've been insanely busy and haven't made time for it. What IS my motivation level here?) I've also always been fascinated by medical schtuff. That's a fine thing and a great indicator that maybe this is a good fit for me. But am I also doing it for approval? Do I fear losing whatever social status or family approval comes with my current salary? Does my ego want to hear someone say "Doctor CJ"? Am I scared of being the receptionist in a family of lawyers... or even in a clinic where everyone else outranks me? Am I doing this because when I was in high school I thought I wanted to be a doctor (for humans) and got intimidated and turned away from the idea?

Lots to think about.

I think it's time to take a local vet to lunch.

Comments

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Will I be able to go home and forget, or will I pour too much of my heart into it?

I do that with anything I'm passionate about. That's why I chose something that I have never gotten sick of and can do that with without driving myself (or others) crazy.

Does my ego want to hear someone say "Doctor CJ"?

Heh heh. I admitted to myself early on in my recareering process that was a part of getting my PhD. :-)

I think you're addressing all of the right aspects of this. And I think taking a local vet out for a lunch chat is a wonderful idea.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a wise person told me earlier today that it's not necessarily a deal-breaker if there's some ego involved. It's okay to want to be called Doctor -- as long as that's not all I'm doing it for. It's not worth it if that's all I get; it won't make me feel happy and fulfilled if that's all I get.

If I said "hey I want to be a lawyer" it would be obvious I'd be doing it for status. I don't love the law. I'm not fascinated by cases or jury duty or precedent. I don't read police procedurals. But here, there's enough on both sides of the fence to muddy the waters.

Thanks for your IM. You have soooo been here.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

ladysprite might be willing to chat with you. She's not local, but there's email or IM, I imagine.

She's a good vet, from what tikva says. She's "Dr. Becky" for them.

I'd have a hard time with the coursework, if it involved work on animals just for the sake of it -- like declawing.

My vet almost compulsively does animal rescue. I'm not sure he euthanizes unwanted animals, he might just take them.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the pointer! I could ask. She was the "vet talks about designer breeds" author, and I remember thinking when I read that, "hey, should I comment?" Then I felt like it would be pushy and off-topic, so I didn't.

I too would have a hard time with work on the animals just for the sake of it. Particularly things I see as sidling toward the "mutilation" side of the fence. I'd eagerly go into the OR to observe an amputation that was needed by the animal on the table; I'd develop chicken pox the day of class if it weren't.

I'm not sure he euthanizes unwanted animals, he might just take them.

I could sooooo see myself doing that... especially if I lived on a few acres. Heh. Rob better get a vote pretty soon here, before it gets too late. ;-)

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

But he also doesn't prolong the life of an animal past the point of reasonableness. One of the reasons I was so very comfortable with Dr. B when Sir Samuel Andrew was sick. Among many other reasons, of course. We must have sat in that exam room, both of us scritching that sweet dog, as we talked about how the surgery went, what the prognosis was, and at what point we'd let him go.

[platypus]

When I began college, it was as a pre-veterinary student. I was warned in advance that admission to veterinary school was extremely competitive and even students with farming backgrounds or extensive volunteer experience often failed to get in (all of which, of course, was on top of the requirements of GPA and coursework and such; it was about the extracurriculars that people would try to use to put themselves over the top). I didn't have either, and failure to get in would have left me with a Meat and Animal Science degree of uncertain usefulness. I'm easily discouraged, though, so what I did is not necessarily the right thing. I'd just suggest asking for information on admissions statistics, to see how big a hurdle it really is. Out of high school, I was solicited by a college with a vet school somewhere in Texas -- in a letter that went on to disclaim itself that it had actually filled all its available slots completely with Texas residents for the past n years. I never had a hope there. It's crazy. But that was fifteen years ago; I don't know what the landscape's like now.

More than that, though, I got discouraged during my first semester about the realities of the coursework. There's no way to get through vet school without causing the deaths of animals for study, or at least there wasn't at UW, and after one course in MAS I'd had enough of docking pigs' tails and castrating goats without anaesthesia and, well, treating animals like objects. The stress, the emotional realities, the likelihood of failure; I cut my losses. It's a hard field to break into, all around, but really good vets are a rare and amazing thing, and I don't want to discourage you from becoming one.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's a lot of good information. Thank you!

I agree that I'd have to beef up my extracurriculars a bunch, to make up for all these years I've sat in my cubicle trying to work my way into early retirement. And I might never get in. I'm nearing too old to start as it is; I'll get one shot or MAYBE two. I'd need to be willing to put in a couple of years on chem and bio knowing that I might not be able to do anything with it.

The realities of the coursework are something I can accept intellectually. If there is no better way to learn how to prevent pain and death during years and years of practice than by causing some of it while learning, then maybe it is a good tradeoff. But accepting it emotionally is going to be tough, very very tough.

I too can be easy to discourage, at times. If I turn away from this am I doing it because of fear of rejection, or because I don't know if I can get over my squeamishness, or because it really isn't the right thing for me? Dangit, it's hard to figure this stuff out!

Thanks again for your response. Lots of good food for thought.

CSU Vet School

[spindle-rose.livejournal.com]

I've got an on-line fiber buddy who is in the middle of applying to vet school. She's an MIT alumn probably a few years older than you, has home-schooled her kids, and has been working as a vet tech for the past year or so. They rejected her once in a way that sent her home to study more and reapply. If you want me to put you in touch, let me know.

Re: CSU Vet School

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

That would be absolutely awesome. Thank you. (Wow, older than me? But already past the prep work... Maybe there's hope.)

[nosrednayduj]

My partner Valerie's son-in-law is a part-time vet. He does "relief work", so when other vets are on vacation, he works for them. This gives him unpredictable vacation times; usually he works full time in the summers and occasionally in the other seasons. It makes a high stress job much less stressful. He lives in Yakima WA, a low-cost-of-living kinna town, but big enough to support this lifestyle. Occasionally he'll work for a couple weeks in some further town and have to stay over with friends.

I don't recommend Yakima as a place to live, though. Totally hot in the summer. (We were just there.) Spokane has a huge contra dance scene. It's probably horrid in the summer too, tho. I was there in the late fall a few years ago.

Can't help you with the "should you do a huge investment training wise" thing, though. If it were me I wouldn't. But I already know I don't like to work too hard.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Ooo, "relief work" sounds like an intriguing approach! It would go well with volunteering at spay/neuter clinics on my off times, too. Interesting!

I don't mind working hard if it's exciting and interesting and challenging, or if it's in the service of a good goal. That's one big change from my younger self -- college-age me couldn't stick to anything longer than a semester. But I know that in any period that long (seven YEARS? Minimum?) full of hard work, there will be times of boredom, times of frustration, and times of what-the-@#$-was-I-thinking. Now would be a really good time for me to come to terms with that reality or to decide "not this lifetime".

[abenn.livejournal.com]

I don't know a thing about vet school. But I do know about pursuing dreams. If it's this much of a passion for you, you've just got to go for it.

Maybe it won't work out, but you will know you tried. And, chances are very good that simply taking action towards this goal will lead you to a life that you'll enjoy a lot more.

Besides, the rest of us will find it fascinating to read about. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

See, that's the thing: a friend asked me earlier "Do you have a PASSION for veterinary medicine?" and I couldn't answer the question. It would be so much easier if I knew whether I did or I didn't. I am excited by it, intrigued, fascinated; I feel a pull; I've loved animals since I was two and I've been intrigued by medical-ish stuff for a while; is that passion? Not sure. I can't claim I'm not this interested in other things either. I have either too many passions or too few.

[wooddragon.livejournal.com]

Or you could spend some time conversing with my dear friend, Dr. Alex, who just in the last two months became a vet. She was an aeronautical engineer for over 10 years, then quit it all and went to vet school.

She's in the Pasadena area. Or you could fly down and take her to lunch. I'm sure she'd share her experiences thus far with you.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

That would be wonderful! A veterinarian who got there as a second career would be someone I'd dearly love to talk to.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

Switching careers (and locations) is fine ... but I'm concerned that you're considering something that you haven't expressed a near-obsession with.

"Maybe-someday" is fine ... but it's not the same as "I've wanted to do this ALL MY LIFE."

I can't tell from your posting just how strong the yearning is within you to become a vet. And if you aren't *convinced* that this is the right career for you ... then it may well not be.

But you know I'll support you no matter what you want to do. :)

[airporter.livejournal.com]

And I've always wanted to be adored by millions, hon - but it's not an obsession.

A careful weighing of interest versus requirements doesn't harm a damn thing. In fact, it may make the decision much easier, knowing the positive risks and negative ones clearly ahead of time. Being obsessed by something (lifelong or otherwise) does tend to cloud one's thinking.

As for your last line, may I heartily add a "hell, yes!" to that?

[ambar.livejournal.com]

My question would be, how well can you deal with a career that is probably 80% on your feet and moving (unless you go into the research/lab side, which it didn't sound like above)?

I can put you in touch with someone who's currently in her 2nd or 3rd year at UC Davis vet school if you want. Her mother was also a DVM, and head of the Veterinary Genetics Lab at UCD before her untimely death.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

That's a really good point, and I have never yet heard of a veterinarian in a wheelchair. I'm definitely not aiming for the research side. I could imagine putting tall chairs (maybe on wheels) in all the exam rooms. I could imagine being part time. I don't know how possible or easy that is.

I find it intriguing that you headed that direction and then paused. Are you still keeping that door open, in your mind?

Yes, if she'd be willing to talk to an unsure middle-aged prospective student, that would be great! Thank you!

[airporter.livejournal.com]

My two cents is already embedded elsewhere in this, CJ, so I'll just add that if it feels right after your investigations, go for it. I believe you'd do your best to find the balance for all the persons and pets involved, including yourself. And that's the best attitude to have in my mind for a vet. Considerate and caring with a dollop of reality.

May your lunch give you sufficient information to decide whether to...

get more information!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Definitely need more information. This morning in the shower I was thinking very very hard about the whole idea of trading one high-stress job for another. Isn't the whole POINT of this life overhaul to get AWAY from a bit of the stress I've built for myself?

Of course, if the job is fulfilling enough, that will be much more okay with me than it is now. Much soul-searching ahead.

I do think that if I go for it I will be a good vet. I am perhaps even on the arrogant side on that one. If I didn't feel that part so strongly, I think I'd probably ditch the idea right now.

[tiger-spot.livejournal.com]

My sibling started college in a pre-veterinary program, then switched to computer science and now does that programming stuff you don't like. He said that he decided he'd rather fix programs for a living and fix animals as a hobby than the other way around.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* Everyone has a different fit! I'm curious, though. How can he fix animals as a hobby? Is he a vet tech, a pet sitter, a humane society worker, ...?

Now or never

[lauradi7.livejournal.com]

This is a different question from "too late in my life" but I just wanted to share a bit of wisdom from Dear Abby, of all people. Someone had written in, considering training for a new career, but it would take her ten years to do it while trying to make a living at the same time. Her remark was something along the lines of
"By the time I finished I'd be 40."
Abby: "how old will you be in ten years if you don't do it?"

I'm ten years older than that, but the point I took from it was "start NOW" whatever your age, and get to your goal when you get there.

Re: Now or never

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I've heard that gem from many sources, and it's a good one. The problem in this case is that in order to be a veterinarian I must gain acceptance to a veterinary medicine program at a school, and those are (and quite rightly too) age-limited.

good luck...

[justetthon.livejournal.com]

Quite a switch for you, CJ! I thought I was going out on a limb with the MBA-emphasis in health care administration that I am pursuing. Having worked in academic research (spinal cord injury in rats) for 25 years now, it feels like a huge switch for me to be looking at the business-side of things. Still not sure I "want to" as it's much easier to just work with rats, and machines that don't talk back! :-)

Do you have any science (biology, chemistry, animal science, medical, anatomy, etc) classes in your academic background? Even if you do, if having been out of school for too long, they may make you take all that over again... something to think about. Vet school is incredibly hard and even more incredibly competitive, but I know that if you make it, there are good possibilities at universities who need vets all the time, (we do at Georgetown University) to comply with the federal regulations regarding using animals in research. I think your approach in the exploratory questions is an excellent one, and the input from all the LJ buddies here is invaluable for you to make your decision, but be aware... you may feel more wrung out than you do now and as you approach the magic age of 50, really may wonder what you've done. (eek). I tend to agree with Allan H. - if it's not a burning passion but more of a "maybe someday" interest, it may be harder than you anticipate to make this switch. Is it possible to apply any of your computer wizardry to the field of vet/animal care, without going through the rigors of vet school, internships, vet practice, etc? Like Allan says, we support you in whatever you decide to do... but know it might be a long haul. Good LUCK and keep us posted.

ps, this is a picture of my cat, Gypsy Bear, as she sat in one of my crinolines of years past! I had to have her put down in 2000, right after Crack the Crab convention, and it was SO TOUGH to hand her over to the vet. gosh. Your postings just remind me of all that, and how vets have to steel themselves against not only the sick animals, but also the owners. I know you've been there, done that. Ett

Re: good luck...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

It is indeed quite a switch, and like you, I'm looking at what parts of my current career are easier. Computers don't talk back either, nor do they (usually) whimper in pain. And I'm already trained for this one. It does sort of seem stupid to want to make this leap.

I have very little of the right kind of science, and my GPA was never stellar either, so part of the prep work I listed in the original post is about two years' worth of chem, bio, and the like. I'd need that before even applying to the veterinary school.

Then, of course, four years of veterinary school isn't exactly easy for even the twentysomethings. One of the biggest questions for me in all this is whether I can handle the rigorous training and the intense course load for that length of time. That's a big big hill to climb. One point in my favor in all this is that I tend to have a lot of energy compared to people around me. That might help. Another entry on the positive side is that I'm a bit more mature and willing to work hard than I was when I was younger. A third bit is that I have a level of intelligence that has got to at least help. Still, it's a really good question.

I like the idea of somehow melding computer stuff and working with animals. That's probably a far easier path and worth some creative thought.

I feel for you about Gypsy Bear. It's so, so hard, even when we know it's time. My tiny Princess trusted me implicitly, and she leaned up against me, and she let me pick her up and put her on that table, and I killed her. It's really awful. The one redeeming thing was that I knew I could save her some short time in blinding pain. At least I had that knowledge as solace.

[layer.livejournal.com]

man, substitute landscape architect for vet and i could have written this post. in fact, i think i might just start sending my friends to your lj and say: want to know how i feel, read CJ.

my aunt is a vet in rural minnesota. she has a number of health restrictions which seriously limit her range and quantity of practive and still she calls veteranary medicine a gold mine. she has always loved it and refused to give it up no matter how sick she has been.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I have the feeling you are more passionate about the landscape stuff than I am about... well, anything really. I love animals and I love the idea of working with them, but then I "love" a lot of stuff. Do you have One Clear Love or do you, like me, have many? Other than that question, of course, I soooooooo see what you mean. We're in the same boat in a whole lot of ways.

The health thing is an intriguing question. There are lots of professions in which it is not necessarily all that bad to become ill or disabled after you've already established yourself, but could be pretty bad to start out that way. I don't yet know whether vet is one of them.

This weekend -- TOMORROW -- I want to drop by my vet's office and ask around who'd want to have lunch with me on a day off. Maybe I could write a letter & people not in tomorrow could also read it.

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

As soon as you can, get a job in a veterinary practice. It doesn't matter in the short term what the job is -- receptionist even. What matters that you have a chance to look for yourself at what it's like on the inside.

An acquaintance of mine wanted to go to divinity school to be a UU minister. Her minister strongly advised her to get a job in a church and work for awhile before she applied to divinity school, so she could see what it was like to be on the inside, where everything looks very different. The only job she could get was as a quarter time (10 hours a week) director of religious education, so that's what she took, and struggled to survive on the meager salary. She eventually decided she did want to go for it, applied to school, and became a minister herself.

She always said taking that DRE job first was the smartest thing she ever did. Even though she wasn't a minister, she worked with one on a daily basis, and saw what it was like to interact with the congregation from a staff point of view.

She had more time than you do, because she had just finished college, so she could afford to wait to get at least some kind of professional job. Otherwise even being a church secretary would have helped. That's why I'm suggesting you get a short-term job in a vet's office -- not to accrue vet tech hours for your application, but to help you decide if you want to fill out that application.

If you work in a vet's office, even as a receptionist or secretary, you'll find out how you feel about some of the things you're concerned about. When you schedule appointments for euthanasias, can you find equanimity making the appointment or do you hate even writing it down? When an owner comes to check out and pay, and declines to make the follow-up appointment the vet ordered -- because they don't want to bother, or because they genuinely can't afford it -- how will you handle that? Spending six months as a receptionist in a vet's office will give you a really good idea about how well you can deal with situations like that.

And of course you'll have vets you can talk to about real cases. You can ask them how they dealt with Mrs. Richbitch and her poodle, and what it would have taken to give Mr. Poor's cat a few more years instead of euthanizing her, and how they felt about it.

Consider doing this while you're still living there, so you'll have a better idea of whether you want to choose a new location because it's close to a good vet school. If you do, and you find yourself hating to go to work every day because you can't stand typing "euthanasia" one more time ... or you find yourself sitting in the front office dying to perform the procedures -- even the emotionally difficult ones -- instead of just setting up appointments for them -- you'll know whether that's the road you want to set out on.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

What matters that you have a chance to look for yourself at what it's like on the inside.

I COMPLETELY agree. This would answer quite a few of my questions. Even if I take a few veterinarians out to lunch & I get all fired up & decide this looks like a good goal, I still need to do this before being certain. I honestly think it's smart that veterinary programs require it for admission. There are not many schools and they may as well admit only the people who know for sure that they want to forge ahead with this.

The one catch-22 I have is that if I ditch the high-tech income I have to move Right Effing Now. I can't be a vet receptionist and pay the mortgage on this house, at least not for long and not if I ever want to pay tuition. That leaves me deciding where to move when I don't yet know for sure whether I'm going for veterinarian.

One thing we can do is decide where we want to go -- some With and some Without vet schools -- and rent for a while, tossing me into a vet clinic for the first year. THEN we could decide "are we buying our house here and going to school, or doing one of the Plan Bs?" But that does complicate the whole process.

[valcat.livejournal.com]

Jackie's mom: My human said you were thinking about becoming a vet. Please do not do this. You are a very nice person. Vets are not nice people. I have experience with this. Please ask Jackie if she thinks you should be a vet. I am sure she will say no.

However, if you do become a vet, I think you will be one that is less not nice than the others, because you are a good kittymom so I think you would be a good vet.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Hi Val! One thing I have to remember is that I especially like being nice to animals. I don't like being not nice and having them hate me. If I become a vet I will have lots of them hate me. That is sad. But maybe, like you said, I can be LESS awful than some. That would be worth working for.