Boise

[cjsmith]

Step 1 in figuring out what to do with the rest of our lives: figure out where it's going to happen.*

This weekend Rob and I checked out Boise.

General impressions:
- pretty darn white
- pretty darn hot
- surprisingly un-oppressive about how overwhelmingly Christian it is
- surrounding area just as dead and brown in the summer as where we live now
- fun walkable downtown (if ya have feet)
- close to skiing (good if ya have feet)
- lots of kayaking
- good potential for finding a house we like
- not much aviation community (though there's lots for the population size)
- friendly people (except the guy at Piazza di Vino)
- full complement of the same big box stores you can find in larger cities in America
- significant variety of restaurants
- no Challenge square dancing potential ever
- no veterinary school

Several of these traits will be shared by just about every place we consider. Places with perfect climate and comfortable religious diversity don't come cheap; if the point is to ditch the rat race and move to a far less expensive location, we'll have to accept some changes. Given that, Boise's pretty nifty. It has a Pride parade. lkeele, I found an EGYPTIAN restaurant! It's more cosmopolitan than a coast-dweller might guess a city of 185,000 to be.

I don't know if I can handle summer heat of 103F. weather.com claims the average July high to be 89; that is a sobering reminder that Albuquerque (92) and Austin (96) are probably also hotter than they look.

Could I be happy in Boise?

Probably.

Next stop: Albuquerque. Also on the list: Austin, Boulder, maybe Portland if we forget about cheap or sunny.

______________________
* People of my generation and even a bit older change careers more often than they move from one state to another. Therefore, says Penelope Trunk, pick the location first and then pick the career. The location will last longer.

Comments

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Note to self: bestplaces.net.

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

By the time I finished writing my comment, you had already answered one of my questions! Great minds....

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

Also check out CityRating.com (http://www.cityrating.com/). I haven't used it but it looks like the same type of site.

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

Oh my! With my connectivity problems and consequent busy-ness when I can get online, I've obviously been missing a lot! I didn't know you were planning to move! (I owe you a reply to a comment, too. You asked a question I was dying for you to ask, and then I didn't get to answer it! I still will, though -- I have the email marked so I can find it!)

I ran into the same problem twice in the past when I was trying to pick a place to move to. (Neither move worked out -- actually for the same reason both times, I never realized that till just now.) The first time wasn't as hard, as we were planning to buy an FBO so we were looking at the southwest because it has the best flying weather. (We ended up choosing Albuquerque.)

But the second time I had the same problem of trying to balance climate, affordability, values, and a variety of other factors. The places with a wonderful climate were too expensive (California) or too conservative or whatever. The places we liked that were affordable and had enough liberals/intellectuals (a university and a UU church) were too hot or too cold (or in some cases both!)

It's fun looking, though, isn't it! At the time I used the Places Rated Almanac (http://www.placesrated.com/). I'm surprised they don't have a software or web-based program any more -- that was tremendously helpful. You could pick from a large number of factors, and then weight the factors as to importance.

No matter how I rejiggered things, one city kept coming up in the top 3: Johnson City, Tennessee. Sounds strange, I know, but we went down there and I loved it. Climate a little milder than Maryland but still a 4-season climate, nestled right next to enormous national parks, good schools (Meredith was in middle school at the time), a university and a UU church (ensuring people we could feel comfortable with), a pleasant small-town atmosphere but plenty of amenities, and ridiculously cheap housing prices.

I'm sorry it didn't work out. I think I would have been happy there. If I were doing it again now, of course, I'd have a different set of priorities, so who knows where I'd end up.

I hope you find the place that's right for you! How did you narrow it down to the ones you picked?

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

We're planning to move, yeah, but probably not soon. I need an entire life overhaul. This entry is probably the only other place I've mentioned that in this journal.

trying to balance climate, affordability, values, and a variety of other factors

Yep, that's what makes it tough, for sure! My parents actually have it worse. My mother hates the cold New England winters; she wants a place with lots of brilliant sunshine, arts/music/culture, New Age sensibilities, Buddhist meditation groups, etc. Meanwhile my dad wants a place where he can have a job -- he's a techie. That pretty much leaves San Jose, and did I mention they kinda need it to be affordable? I'm doing comparatively well because I'm willing to throw my twenty-year career into the wastebin.

We sound a lot more organized than we really are. We haven't narrowed it down. We're just thinking up places, discarding the ones that are egregiously bad fits for us, and putting the rest on the list! Obviously we'll need to get a little more focused.

Are you happy where you are now?

[dizzdvl.livejournal.com]

We have a vet school! (Why do you want a vet school?)
And an airport.
And it's flat!
And hot in summer!
And cold in winter!
And 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours in the middle of 3 major cities.
We have cloggers, so we might have square dancing.

Nah, it's dull here, but chock full of computer geeks :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Where are you again? Davis?? (Guessing!!) Oh wait, cold in winter...

One of the things I've been thinking of being when I grow up is a veterinarian. I was surprised when I learned that not every city has a school offering a DVM program. It had never before occurred to me that I might not be able to do that whereever I wanted. (Not that even getting IN would be a cinch. I hear it's just as competitive as human-doctor programs are.)

[kimatha.livejournal.com]

Billings is sunny and cheap! And it has a Pride parade.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Would it be TOTALLY dorky to say that I'd think of living near you guys as a plus, even though I've never MET you? :)

[lrc.livejournal.com]

I have two ex-girlfriends that live in Nampa. If you want more info on Boise, I can put you in touch with them.

I've got a buddy in Portland that flies a Rans S-10 he built himself. If you're interested in what aviation is like in that area, I can point you at him.

I've got another friend (Cessna 210) who lives in Bend, sunnier than Portland, and a short flight away.

I like Austin. For Texas, it's damn near civilized.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Wow! Who would have thought that one person on my flist would know TWO people in Nampa? Nampa's not that big!

Portland I think I've got a fairly good handle on; I just wish it were in the range of "you can buy a house within 10 minutes of downtown on an acre of land for $300K". :) Oh, and yeah, sun. I do get affected by the amount of light around me. :(

Totally agree with you about Austin. It's the only thing in Texas on our list at the moment. It has a lot going for it... except the heat.

[eichin.livejournal.com]

A couple of my MIT friends have ended up in ABQ via differing paths, you may at least find it interesting. Unexpected downside: no outdoor housecats, due to predators...

Is Lawrence KS on your list? Apparently one of the larger pagan communities in the midwest, plus it's "locally high-tech" - they had cable internet about the same time *Cambridge* did - ljworld.com is one of the newspapers, if you want to poke around a bit...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

We were initially thinking Santa Fe but when we saw the size of Boise and knew Santa Fe was a third of it... and if you're not an art gallery owner there's not a thing to do... well, Albuquerque. :)

We were actually surprised to find Boise doesn't have some of those predators. Heck, they're around here if you go into the hills a little. That's a plus for Boise: I'd be willing to let the cats out again.

I hadn't even considered Lawrence KS. Thanks for the tip!

[hot-turkey.livejournal.com]

Boulder is one of my favorite places in the whole world. My sister has lived there since the 70s (except for a short stint in Fairbanks), and could be a good resource if you have questions about the area.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I wonder if Boulder is inexpensive enough for us, but if we can swing it, it has a lot going for it.

[lizzie-omalley.livejournal.com]

Well, as compared to San Fran, Boulder is cheaper, I suppose but, as compared to anywhere else Boulder is not so much. It's an interesting city and close to Denver which has a lot going on but I wouldn't class it as cheap in a relative schmeme of things. And it is very much a foot city. Lots of hiking, biking, skiing of all types and the like. There is also Kayaking and some water things but most of the entertainment outside is focused on foot sports. I am not sure that you could substitute a career in Boulder that changed your work schedule significantly because of the proportion of the wages. Most of the people who can afford to live in Boulder have been there some time and found it before it became ridiculously expensively trendy or work in demanding high paying jobs nearby.

Austin is Hot in the summer. Muggy hot. But the city itself is very off beat and I had a good vibe from it when I was looking into teaching jobs there. Austin has a large lake in the middle of it (Which is formed, I think, by the damming of the Colorado River, not the one that goes to Gulf of California, the Texas one) there is much recreating done in the lake. In addition, there is a lot of cultural stuff goes on in Austin. Much cheaper than SF and I think you could substitute a career there that didn't demand that you work 100 hours a week to afford living there.

UTexas is nearby but I think that the Vet school is in TX A&M College Station and from what I hear, College Station would make Boise look progressive.

Interesting article. I think she has a point about relationships being the key to happiness. My last job became unbearable when my sense of hope that I was going to find quality relationships where I was living went out the window. Since I had more control of work thing, and since work was interfering with my doing things that put around people that I wanted to be around, I did the career thing first. I looked at the kinds of careers that had me doing things that I enjoyed and put me in touch with people in a way that would facilitate buidling relationships in a work community. So, I quit my job, went back to school for a Masters in Education and am now off, in a week, to work as an Environmental Educator at a wildlife refuge, something that I have wanted to do for years. The work itself will bring me to small, off beat places and put me in touch with people love our natural and historic hertiage and is social enough that the social side of my introvert gets fed.

As I was plotting my money strategy, I found the book "Your Money or Your Life" to be helpful. It talks about the ins and outs of breaking out of the traditional American rat race.

Good luck on your search. It's a great adventure.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Perhaps on further searching we'll find Boulder itself to be too pricey. Fort Collins (vet school) might be less so... we really haven't researched costs there yet.

Yeah, I worry about College Station. It's difficult to predict I would be happy there for four years.

I gotta decide whether I really want to be a veterinarian or not. Like soon. It's a heck of a constraint to put into the decision.

Environmental Educator at a wildlife refuge seems really nifty! I hope it does just what you want it to in terms of the level of social contact. It's hard for us introverts to find the right balance. Congratulations on finishing the Masters!

I too enjoyed the book "Your Money or Your Life" and have gotten a lot out of it. Without that, I might not have the courage to be thinking about all these options now.

[bendoutdoors.livejournal.com]

Let us know what you think of ABQ. That's on our list as possible second home locations. Bend is nearly perfect for us (home of Columbia Aircraft as you probably know). Late winter, early spring is about the only time we'd rather be somewhere else. Darin and I both spent many years on the western side of the mountains (Eugene, Portland, Seattle) but decided the lack of sunlight is too much of a downer.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I'll post a report! I too am starting to think along the lines of winter hime / summer home. Sadly, that does eat up the money, and the main point of this (for me right now) is to free myself from needing a high income. So maybe we won't go that route right away or maybe ever.

I think I'm with you on the sunlight. I'm very light-aware. I can get truly grim if I don't see the sun.

[mbumby.livejournal.com]

Next stop: Albuquerque. Also on the list: Austin, Boulder, maybe Portland...

Interesting list. I live in Ann Arbor, and love it. Not only the feel of the city, but the fact that it's an easy drive to Chicago, Nashville, Toronto, and not a terribly bad drive to the East Coast. I had a friend in Albuquerque, and it was beautiful (if you like mountains) and had yummy Mexican restaurants, but I think I'd get tired of it pretty fast. Visited Boulder back in 1988, and it had the same feel as Ann Arbor -- but I've been told since then that it's gone through "completely yuppified" into "way too commercial" -- plus you have to just get used to your windshield always being cracked because of the gravel they put down in the winter. Plus it's way too far from anywhere else.

Drove through Portland at 2:00 am, and want to go back -- what I could see of it had that same feel I love in Ann Arbor. Stayed a few days in Seattle. If you like music, that's an okay choice -- I think I could learn to be happy there. I've heard good things about Austin too... but...

Is there a reason Ann Arbor, Michigan isn't on your list? Ok, it's not cheap, but I'm actually currently residing the next town over where housing is somewhat more reasonable, but if anyone (other than the border guard) asks, I say I'm from A-squared.

[rfrench.livejournal.com]

Well, really the main reason we're planning to move is to go someplace cheap. But cheap is relative. Can you get a house on 1/2 acre for less than $400K? If so, it's cheap.

Are the summers hot and sticky?

[abqdan.livejournal.com]

How exciting! You are coming to visit! We'll have coffee and paintbrushes ready - you do know we're remodelling? :-)

I hope Bill and I get to see you when you are here.

[rfrench.livejournal.com]

Hey, tell Bill to read his email. Or, if he's too busy on his vacation, perhaps you'd be willing to answer some questions for me?

[ladycelia.livejournal.com]

Rapid City, South Dakota is lovely. It's the banana belt of South Dakota. Plus, it's a college town. Granted, I've only lived there in the spring and summer.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

College town is always a big plus for me. It means liveliness, culture, restaurants, and usually classes to take if you like.

[layer.livejournal.com]

have a friend who looked at boulder last weekend. let me know where that lands on your list. it's a location i might consider as well, and if i decide to ditch all and leave everyone i know it would be nice to know someone.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean about ditching all and wanting to know someone. Me too. I have some confidence I could make friends in a new city, but... well... I didn't make the most of my opportunity to do that here, did I?

LiveJournal might help. I wouldn't put it past me to LJ-friend everyone I could find in a new city just to get to know folks. (I hope I wouldn't look like a desperate loser or a stalker.)

[nosrednayduj]

Adding a new city to the list: Eugene OR. It's a college town and very liberal. I don't know if it's cheaper than Portland. It's 2 hrs south of Portland. Ken lived there in HS while his dad was busy being a college professor at the Univ. of Oregon in Eugene.

[curmudgn]

If and when you come to Austin, please get hold of me and I'll be happy to share my experience of thirty-two years' living here. And I know my wife would like to meet you both; the mere possibility that any C-level callers might one day be local excited her.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thank you - that is a most generous offer! I would enjoy meeting you both as well.

O'course, C-level callers don't mean much without at least eight C-level dancers, so there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem on that one. :-)

[billeyler.livejournal.com]

I did reply to Rob's email to me about ABQ, but of course a phone conversation might work better!

[ericainohio.livejournal.com]

*shyly raises hand*

I hardly dare to suggest it, but.... wanna come visit me in the Cincinnati area for a tour? I think you'd be very, very surprised at how many of your criteria could be met here. There is a lot of diversity here, which is why it upsets me so much that Cincy has such a bad national reputation - it's largely unfair and undeserved.

We have the stuff of big cities - a world-class orchestra and art museum, a glut of restaurants of all types and farmers markets everywhere (people here LOVE TO EAT!), the usual suspects as far as big-box retail. And we have drag clubs, a major university (as well as several smaller ones), nightlife, religious diversity (the majority is Christian/Catholic and Jewish, with a fair smattering of everything else, including pagan), lots of bookstores (including one very large locally-owned one), and a thriving non-hetero community.

The climate is temperate. It doesn't drop much below 20F for more than a handful of days in the winter, with moderate-to-nonexistent snowfall. We get a big snowfall every couple of years or so. Summers can be steamy, but usually that doesn't start in earnest until mid-July (this week is going to be in the mid-90s and humid. Ugh.) Spring and autumn weather here is an absolute treat. I tell people that spring and autumn in Cincinnati make you forgive it for winter and summer.

The housing is amazingly cheap compared to what you're apparently used to. $200K would fetch you a very decent house for two people, in a nice neighborhood. $300K-$400K would be an *amazing* house here - actually, it would probably be FAR more than you guys would want.

Nearest vet school is Columbus, though. There IS square dancing here (although D and I have not danced for several years now), and a lot of it, but I don't think it's ....ah....what you're used to. I don't know anything about the Challenge square dancing potential, sorry.

Hey, there's a swingers' club right around the corner from my house - how's that for diversity? *chuckle*

Besides, you'd be near me and Cyd. ;-P You'd be here for Stitch & Bitch days!

Anyway, consider yourself invited. Just give me a few hours' notice so I can freshen up the bathrooms and sweep up most of the cat hair. :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh man. Stitch & Bitch might make up for summer humidity... well, for me, anyway. An hour to the Dayton air show... might that convince Rob? I doubt it but you never know!

Regardless of where we wind up, I would so love to come visit you for a S&B some day. That would be most excellent. *wistful sigh*

[lkeele.livejournal.com]

Ooo, an Egyptian restaurant! How cool is that! I wonder if they had Kushari? We did Iranian and Ethiopian and Turkish food in Toronto -- but no Egyptian.

Boise is nice -- I was pleasantly surprised at how liveable it was, after growing up in Utah where everyone made fun of Idahoans in order to make themselves feel better about being Utahns.

I've heard great things about Austin, and I have friends who live there and love it. I don't know anything about Albuquerque except how to spell it, but I do like what I've seen of New Mexico. Boulder and Boise may be sunny now, but they'll both be under feet and feet of snow come the winter -- are you up for snow?

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

No kushari, I looked! (And I'd FORGOTTEN ITS NAME but I would have recognized it immediately.) I did get something sort of similar, pasta with a decidedly-not-Italian tomato-and-meat sauce and a dollop of bearnaise on the top. I almost snagged a to-go menu so I could send it to you. Can't find one on the web. A review. Another.

If I do move to Boise I'm going to have to learn to cook Ethiopian. That stuff is too darn tasty to never have it again.

Boise gets only a couple inches of snow from time to time. (To give you an idea, they don't bother plowing residential streets, ever.) As a Massachusetts girl I can totally live with that. Boulder, though, man do they get some blankets.

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

Ooo, have you done findyourspot.com? Has Rob? T'would be interesting to see what you came up with...

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Haven't done that one -- may as well! The more the merrier!

[redgrrl.livejournal.com]

My favorite place in the whole world is Flagstaff, AZ. Don't know if it meets any of your criteria since I haven't been back in 30 years (sob), but having the Grand Canyon practically in your backyard is just...incredible. They have seasons there, but the snow is not blizzard-y, more like a winter postcard. And Phoenix is nearby if you want more heat (well, pretty much anything south of Flagstaff is going to be considerably hotter). Sedona sounds cool but pricey.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Mmm, hadn't thought about it. Is water scarce there? I like Flagstaff's higher elevation, keeping things a bit cooler. We (me and another pilot, not Rob) had to land in Flagstaff once due to landing gear problems... original destination Sedona didn't have enough fire trucks for us ;-)

Sedona does indeed sound pricey, and there may not be much work unless you can sell psychically charged crystals. But it's a nifty place to visit and the airport restaurant can't be beat.