I don't think I'm going to eat that

[cjsmith]

I'm too scared to try that beef thing.

I think if a restaurant served it to me I'd eat it, but I don't trust this. There could be a million things seriously wrong with it.

1) It could be not cooked through -- after all, it's PINK! Permanently pink! But it did crumble when I tried to grab the chunk with tongs. I had to get it out of the crock pot with two spatulas. I guessed it was done. But how will I ever know?

2) It is full of disgusting, revolting fat. There was a big layer on one side of the piece. It's... pretty slimy now, that layer. :-( Maybe I can pick that off. Or maybe I'll miss some and wind up with a mouthful of it.

3) Plus the obvious: I already expect it to taste bad, with the corned beef / bbq combo.

I suspect, honest to goodness, that this stuff is going to sit in my freezer until about 2007 and then I will pitch it.

I really hate to see myself do the same damn thing EVERY TIME I TRY ANYTHING in the kitchen. (Except baking.) I get adventurous, I do something... and then for one reason or another, usually just not trusting that it's now safe to eat the mess I have created, I pop it in the freezer hoping for courage to come later. Then a couple years down the road it's got freezer burn and I feel twinges of guilt and frustration and sadness when I throw it out.

People honestly wonder why I/others-like-me don't cook. It boggles my mind that anyone would wonder. (Okay, some of them "wonder" as a thin disguise over I'm-better-than-you. I'll certainly admit to seeing that. (One friend of mine readily admits that she thinks anyone who doesn't cook is lazy and financially irresponsible. You guys tell me how this brisket experiment was financially smart.)) But some folks aren't playing the ego game. They honestly don't know.

Comments

[fuzzygruf.livejournal.com]

Either taste it or pitch it. Whatever you do, don't freeze it.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Okay. Why -- to save space in the freezer between now and 2007, or is bbq [corned] beef brisket somehow turned into nonfood by the process of freezing and reheating?

[kimatha.livejournal.com]

To learn to cook, you need to watch Good Eats. Sincerely. You are a logical, scientific sort of person and I think the reason you have trouble with cooking is because few cookbooks and recipes explain technique or the science behind it. I think the way cooking is presented in Good Eats would appeal to you. Alton Brown explains WHY things work the way they do in the kitchen. He breaks stuff down into steps, shows you how to do everything, explains what doesn't work and why. Also, he's funny and wacky and sexy.

[kimatha.livejournal.com]

For example, to know your meat is cooked thoroughly, AB would tell you to measure the temperature with a probe thermometer, and he would tell you exactly what that temperature is supposed to be.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Cooking is sooooooooooooo not worth purchasing and watching a television! Yipes. You're right though, the WHY is something that would definitely appeal to me.

[sebab.livejournal.com]

I so totally second this. even though I do have good cooking intuition, watching Alton Brown has led me to try stuff I wouldn't have considered doing, or wasn't doing optimally, etc.

plus, he is SO entertaining.

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

I'd expect corned beef slow-cooked in barbecue sauce to be rather highly colored. The saltpeter in the brining solution causes the meat to stay red (corned beef is called "corned" because that's an old-fashioned word for curing, and the beef is cured in a brining solution which contains salt, saltpeter (which is used to preserve the color), and spices). I'm more than sure it's thoroughly cooked. I've never done a corned beef in barbecue sauce, but I'm betting it tastes fine. Were I closer, I'd come over and be your guinea pig. I'm betting it's tasty. I'd put the meat and sauce on a platter and pull it by dragging a couple of forks through it until it's nice and shredded, then stuff a good bread roll with it.

I can't help with the fat issue except to say trim it off as well as you can manage.

And I *do* understand people who don't cook. There are a lot of things I don't do because I simply don't feel competent or confident. One of those things I don't do is learn to fly an airplane. Another thing I don't do unless compelled to do so practically at gunpoint is drive in San Francisco. My sense of direction is *so* poor that it's a handicap, and I'm surrounded by people who simply don't get that.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I'm more than sure it's thoroughly cooked.

Oh good. The vote of confidence is helpful -- very helpful. Thank you.

I'd put the meat and sauce on a platter and pull it by dragging a couple of forks through it until it's nice and shredded, then stuff a good bread roll with it.

I hadn't thought of the forks, but the sandwich was my taste test idea of choice. I'll give it a shot. I promise.

I can't help with the fat issue except to say trim it off as well as you can manage.

Would it have been better/easier to trim it off FIRST? The fat was more solid then. But I wonder how much its presence is supposed to contribute to the building of the flavor during cooking, or some other magic.

There are a lot of things I don't do because I simply don't feel competent or confident. One of those things I don't do is learn to fly an airplane.

Awwww! You can get someone to TEACH you to fly an airplane! Cooking is something we're supposed to know, innately -- cookbooks tell you recipes, not stuff like "don't barbecue corned beef". (Except Joy. I really ought to look more at Joy, if I'm going to try stuff in the kitchen.)

But yeah. You see where I'm coming from. :-)

[layer.livejournal.com]

yeah... people who can cook, hardly ever understand why people like us don't. my favorite condescending remark is "but it's so relaxing..." FOR WHO? for me, cooking is so stressful that most of the time i'd rather starve. add on top of that the fact that by the time i get home from work i'm already so stressed and hungry i'm already on the edge, and the only recipe you have is for disaster, so i stick with what i know: take box from freezer, put box in microwave, heat, eat. safe and sane. :)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

"but it's so relaxing..." FOR WHO?

Hahaha! Yes! I do enjoy baking, so I can intellectually understand how cooking could be enjoyable for others. But it just ain't, for me!

...stressed and hungry i'm already on the edge, and the only recipe you have is for disaster, so i stick with what i know: take box from freezer, put box in microwave, heat, eat. safe and sane. :)

Absolutely!

Every so often I make a recipe I know -- simple stuff, here, I'm no cook -- on a weekend, and I freeze portions. That can work out. I pop a portion into the microwave, heat, and eat. Then I feel like some sort of domestic goddess. I am then exempt from any further cooking for several weeks. :-)

[excessor.livejournal.com]

It's done. It also probably tastes pretty good. It can't hurt you to try it and you'll probably learn what the bbq sauce tastes like after spending time in the pot.

Cooking is skill that can be learned. I once took a cooking class at (the since departed) Home Chef in Palo Alto and it was one of the best things I'd ever done because it explained why things work the way they do. I encourage you to keep trying.

There will be major mistakes and that's just part of it. The trick is to not give the mistakes more prominence than they deserve. Laughing about your mistakes later is very fun. So I'll start: the very first time I cooked for guests, I decided to make a chilled berry soup. I'd never made a chilled berry soup. I'd never tasted a chilled berry soup. But it sounded cool. One of the ingredients was dry white wine. I didn't have any, so at the store I bought a bottle of cooking wine.

Cooking wine has salt in it. A lot of salt. I was so proud when I presented the chilled soup to my guests in my efficiency apartment on a hot summer evening. The garnish was perfect. The consistency was great. The color was gorgeous. The soup was so incredibly salty that it was completely inedible. Ha ha ha. I can laugh about it now.

Lessons learned:
1. Don't try new recipes on guests unless you're really sure of what you're doing.
2. Cooking wine has salt in it. There's no reason ever to use it.
3. Taste before you serve. I could easily have skipped that course and the resulting subsequent years of gentle fun-poking.
4. You can't learn this stuff unless you try.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Oh man! I'm glad even people who are wonderfully competent today have had their share of mistakes. It indicates there's hope for people like me.

I'm going to pull off some pieces and smother them in sauce and make a sandwich. Now that several people have assured me it can't hurt me... :)

And yeah. No new recipes on guests. That much I've already learned, although I think I have mercifully blocked out the memory of that lesson.

Rosemary chicken is simmering away. It smells pretty good. There's some hope.

You forgot #5

[fuzzygruf.livejournal.com]

5. Always have white wine on hand.

[airporter.livejournal.com]

My .02 - total agreement about laughter. And, I'll add that excessor only caused discomfort.

Almost two decades ago, a 'wonderful', hours of prep - moments of cooking - chinese meal was great enjoyment for 4 guests in my first apartment.

I'd made the plum sauce from a very simple recipe in a book I trusted. It was organic and very tasty - and left on the counter a bit tooo long.

All for forgave me.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

OK, I have taken pity upon you and decided to call in major reinforcements.

In this case, a Jewish Mother.

I've asked my mom to fax over her recipe for beef brisket. When it arrives, I will share it with you. I could even be persuaded to come over some time and work through the recipe with you. ;)

Fair enough?

[klwalton.livejournal.com]

You mean you aren't going to share that recipe with the rest of us?!?!

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

OOOO a Jewish Mother! That's bringin' in the big guns!

You are awesome.

[aelfie.livejournal.com]

Dude!!! You had better share with the class! I've never done a brisket except for a corned one (only kind my mom and grandma taught me to do)

[jcgbigler.livejournal.com]

1) It could be not cooked through -- after all, it's PINK! Permanently pink! But it did crumble when I tried to grab the chunk with tongs. I had to get it out of the crock pot with two spatulas. I guessed it was done. But how will I ever know?

If it crumbles, it's done. Nancy & I love rare meat, so we cook it to the minimum safe internal temperature, which is about 115F for beef. At 115, the inside still looks red--almost purple. If you slow-cooked it for several hours, there's no way it could still be undercooked.

2) It is full of disgusting, revolting fat. There was a big layer on one side of the piece. It's... pretty slimy now, that layer. :-( Maybe I can pick that off. Or maybe I'll miss some and wind up with a mouthful of it.

Fat grows on the cow just like the meat does. Fat also enhances the flavor of just about anything. (A study was done some number of years ago that determined that fat molecules increase the signal sent by taste receptors in all parts of the mouth. So fats don't have any particular flavor; they register as all flavors and serve to intensify whatever flavor is already there, in a more-or-less linear way.)

If you're disgusted by the fat, by all means cut it off. But if you're viscerally disgusted by the notion of fat, I wonder if that's a sign that you might be happier being a vegetarian.

3) Plus the obvious: I already expect it to taste bad, with the corned beef / bbq combo.

Then it will taste bad. Your expectations can have a profound effect. Whenever my high school students say "I can't do this," or "I'm going to fail," I say, "You're right, because that's what you've already decided. The data don't stand a chance when the investigator has decided not to look for them."

(That last sentence is grammatically correct--"data" is a plural noun--but it sure sounds wrong...)

People honestly wonder why I/others-like-me don't cook. It boggles my mind that anyone would wonder.

It's obvious--because it scares you. I think you're scared of making something that requires a lot of effort and having it come out bad. I think you're also scared of having something come out good, and feeling like all your friends will suddenly expect that everything you make from then on should always come out just as good.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

If it crumbles, it's done.

That's what I had guessed, when I had trouble getting it out of the pot in one chunk. But knowing is a lot better than guessing. :-) Thanks.

If you slow-cooked it for several hours, there's no way it could still be undercooked.

A coupla other people said that too, which gave me the courage I needed to actually put it in my face. ;-)

If you're disgusted by the fat, by all means cut it off. But if you're viscerally disgusted by the notion of fat, I wonder if that's a sign that you might be happier being a vegetarian.

An interesting distinction. I do prefer lean meats, not because I want them dry and tough, but because I don't like to eat chunks of fat. It's a texture thing, a shivery "ick" response when I think of the gooey-ness. I've gone vegetarian a coupla times, the most recent one for about three years, and yeah, I think I can be very happy that way. I never have to worry about chewing down on a bit of gristle. On the other hand, I really do like some meat dishes. Also, without cooking for myself, it was very easy to slide into the "all my protein comes from cheese" trap. (Now there's a low fat food, heh.) My doctor, no less, was the one who told me to cut THAT out (after looking at my blood work). *big dramatic put-upon poor-me sigh*

It's obvious--because it scares you. I think you're scared of making something that requires a lot of effort and having it come out bad. I think you're also scared of having something come out good, and feeling like all your friends will suddenly expect that everything you make from then on should always come out just as good.

Exactly. The former, more than the latter. I have an extra fillip of "what if this thing I am about to eat really isn't safe to eat?" I suspect if I ever food-poison myself it'll be the end of my kitchen attempts!

[hnybny.livejournal.com]

Don't get too upset the dish didn't seem up to par. Crockpot cooking is different than stovetop/oven cooking in a number of ways. First, there is no "as you go" methodology. It's pretty much put an assemblage of ingredients in and wait. Good preparation is key.

I agree with the advice you've had so far:

* Yes, you can trim your brisket of fat with no real ill affects.
* Don't worry about the color of brisket due to the curing brines.

All flavorings in crockpot cooking become intensified so be careful not to over season. Also understand, crocking is definitely not an exact science. Depending on the size, temp and times in a pot, any recipe can vary. Also, crocking is not the prettiest of cooking methods but can definitely be plated to look nicer.

The best recipes I've ever found are from person to person. Whenever I read a crockpot cookbook, they always seem somewhat bland. I'm a member of the "Crockpot Cooking" group on Tribe.net and have found tons of great recipes and advice there.

Don't get discouraged so soon. I believe you have it in you to make some pretty cool things :-)

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Yeah, the stuff didn't look beautiful coming out of the pot, but that's okay. I wouldn't serve it in the pot. ;-)

Good tip on over-seasoning. I gotta watch that. I like putting a bit extra of flavors I know I like. I'll behave, at the very least until I get a lot better intuition about what happens to crock pot stuff.

And thank you! At least I didn't get so discouraged that I didn't make the lemon rosemary chicken. Mmmm, that's smelling soooo good... I hope it tastes half as good as it smells. I love rosemary.

learning to cook

[dawnd.livejournal.com]

The cookbook I recommend for beginning cooks is the Better Homes and Gardens Complete Step By Step Cookbook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/069600125X/qid=1133649893/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-5550111-3728840?s=books&v=glance&n=283155). It is simply the best cookbook for a beginning cook I have ever seen. In fact, I need to buy one of these so I can get MINE back (it's on loan to grynz at the moment). Here's what I wrote in my Amazon review of it (I liked it THAT much!):

My mom gave me this book in the early 1980s when I first moved into an apartment. It became my constant kitchen-companion during those first few years on my own. Each section starts with several recipes that highlight different techniques, including clear photographs illustrating each step. Then, they follow these with more recipes using one or more of the techniques they just covered. Although I've since graduated to more than 2 shelves of cookbooks, and I no longer use this one on a daily basis, I still refuse to give it up (even to my stepdaughter--she has to have her own!). This one in combination with Joy of Cooking would make a fabulous "starter set" for someone wishing to learn how to make good, solid "American food."

Re: learning to cook

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I've got "Joy", but I'm pretty sure I don't have this one you mention. (I think I have a desserts or cookies book by them. [back from kitchen] Yes, yes I do. But not the basic one. Can you tell I like baking? *g*)

"Joy" has saved my butt a couple of times. Who knew you could make a pumpkin pie starting from A PUMPKIN? (Can't find Libby's pureed pumpkin in Paris.)

Thanks for the recommendation!

[inflectionpoint.livejournal.com]

Hey there -

If you ever want some handholding and explanation and step by step showing from someone who is a chemist and biochemist, let me know. I'd be very glad to walk through a recipie with you, including the pre cooking checklist, list of decision points, and list of failure modes, so that you would perhaps feel more confidence. We'd just need to be in the same location. It's best to do things with a partner, perhaps a partner who puts their hands on top of your hands, the first few times.

As my medical doctor friend would say, "See one, do one, teach one..."

Cooking can be scary. I feel similarly about sewing - spend money for material and time cutting and borrow someone's machine, and what if I screw it all up? What to do then?

It can feel very high stakes. I got into it in part as rebellion against my birth family - they couldn't wouldn't prepare good food, and so dammit, I was going to. And then I fell in love with it. I also got into it my first time round as a vegetarian - needed something to eat and salads and cheese sandwiches got old fast.

One thing that helps is to work on simpler and more likely to succeed things at first. But, how on earth to know what is simpler and more likely to succeed? I had to do a lot of asking around and checking for advice, when I started out. Collect about four or five opinions and then try it!

And I am jealous - you can bake! I cook, but baking is a Mystery Beyond Me at this date and time.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

We could trade cooking/sewing or cooking/baking lessons! I don't sew much, but out of laziness. I'm confident doing it. And I lurve baking.

Part of the joy (for me) of baking is that most of the ingredients won't hurt me if I get it wrong. Meat's a little scary. Brownies a little under or over done? They're just over or under moist! Cookies with raisins in 'em, but I forgot the raisins and dumped in walnuts by mistake? They still taste like cookies! :-)

I guess it's all in what intimidates ya. Cooking totally intimidates me. As you can tell. :-)

[hitchhiker.livejournal.com]

I think Casey and Andy, Irregular Webcomic, or both, ran a gag about pineapple and gelatin.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I remember the Casey and Andy one. It ended with the house in flames.

[jupiter29.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that sucks that you finished and were afraid to eat it. :( But I can understand, once you have your mind set that it won't be what you hoped it would, it's hard to get past that. Personally, I've never had corned beef except on a sandwich but I suspect it wouldn't be too bad with barbecue. But I didn't even know corned beef had chemicals in it, so don't go by me. :)

But now I want a corned beef sandwich. Yummy, yummy chemicals! ;)

Anyway, I'm still catching up and I know there's more to come, but I hope you had at least tried. :)